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.NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

devblogs.microsoft.com

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Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#161

Post by jesseryoung »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #58
johnfn wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why say you love open-source if you keep the juicy bits of Visual Studio Code closed-source? More like you love open-source... for making money. I really dislike this mindset. Sure, it's disappointing that some pieces of VSCode aren't open-sourced, but man, they open-sourced an entire IDE and plugin ecosystem. That's such a fantastic contribution to the open source community, and yet I see comments like yours that…

They didn't make VSCode altruistically, they did it to kill a raft of competing text editors that were on the rise. Atom, Sublime Text, etc etc. I think you call it commoditize your complements.

I doubt that Microsoft was looking to get into the "advanced text editor" business. Their biggest money maker is Azure, they made a text editor that promotes Azure.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#162

Post by me_again »

nonbirithm wrote: post #118
thrower123 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It costs less than a cup of coffee a day. Complaining about the price is a nonstarter.

It's not really about the cost. It's about the principle of having to pay any amount of money to be able to do development work at all with your preferred choice of OS/editor. Attaching a price to your ability to onboard a language with your favorite workflow changes how you view that language and the motives of its maintainers when compared to the alternatives for that platform. Java has no such barrier to adoption…

Visual Studio also has a community edition.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#163

Post by pritambaral »

sedatk wrote: post #26
capableweb wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Encouraging? Microsoft demonstrated here that the move wasn't because of quality or that the change was unable to be in the OSS version, they demonstrated that they only act a certain way because of the backlash. If they would have stand their ground, they would have given the image that this change didn't live up to their wanted quality, instead this demonstrated that they are just giving up to peer-pressure because…

What's bad about not wanting to lose developer love?

That's certainly one way to frame it; though, I think, a very narrow view.

They knew they were going to lose some 'developer love' when they originally made the decision. They went ahead anyway. So, your framing isn't adequate.

What made them walk back is when they realised _how much_ they'd lose. Which happened only because lots of people were outraged and vocally spoke against it. Far more than the number of people they were expecting.

It'd be naive to believe they didn't know they're going to lose some, especially given how long they've kept up their charade of 'MS :hearts: OSS'. What's more likely, and supported from evidence of their similar behaviour in other parts of their OSS charade, is that they thought they could get away with it this time too.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#164

Post by pritambaral »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #50
capableweb wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Encouraging? Microsoft demonstrated here that the move wasn't because of quality or that the change was unable to be in the OSS version, they demonstrated that they only act a certain way because of the backlash. If they would have stand their ground, they would have given the image that this change didn't live up to their wanted quality, instead this demonstrated that they are just giving up to peer-pressure because…

If someone reverts a bad decision, then that's objectively a good thing, regardless of the reasons.

"He paused beating his wife, because he had guests."

Objectively, a good thing. Too bad it's useless, because the guests aren't gonna stay very long.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#165

Post by vyrotek »

korla wrote: post #155
ynx wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a very longtime iOS and Linux dev turned Windows and .NET dev (with some rust on the side) - who has used VSCode, VS, and Xamarin for multiple years - no. There is a place for a featureful IDE with robustly implemented build, debug, and package management capabilities working out of the box with multiple languages and entrenched technologies. I do very much like VSC and use it all the time for anything involving t…

I agree, and the competition is at this point more between VS and other full-featured IDEs like JetBrains Rider, which is my tool of choice for .Net-development. But, what I didn't know until this recent debacle, is how there is a theory that the reason the .Net-tooling in VSCode is so bad is the same reason we had this watch-debacle. There was some discussion on that in the other HN-thread: https://news.ycombinator.…

I've become more convinced that VSCode doesn't implement certain features to not compete with VS. For example, support for File Nesting.

https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/6328

For a while there wasn't really another way to run SQL projects outside of VS. Data Studio recently got support for that though.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#167

Post by jonathanlydall »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #153
oaiey wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are people on record that it was the Azure division head Scott Guthrie who gave permission to open source ASP.NET Core (which at the time was part of Azure). Later the asp.net team merged with the .net team and brought the open sourcing with them. VS has no place anymore. The velocity and mindshare is with VS Code. VS with its visual designers had its place .. but desktop is dead and Xamarin competes with frame…

VS Code is not a replacement for an IDE. While I only know IntelliJ, I assume VS must be similar. In short, VS Code is a replacement for Notepad, and not for an IDE. It's not as well integrated, not as thought-out and capable. The only thing that saves it IMO is the remote server mode.

VS is my daily driver and I absolutely agree that VS Code doesn’t come anywhere close to a fully fledged IDE like VS.

But VS Code is far more just a text editor and that you can run and debug many languages in it in my opinion means it meets the criteria of an IDE.

If I was forced to switch from VS to VS Code I would be miserable and feel handicapped, but infinitely more productive than just having a text editor and the dotnet CLI.

So VS Code is absolutely a “replacement” for VS, but only for a poor man with a very limited set of required features.

All the above being said, I don’t ever see VS Code truly replacing VS, but it’s a competent IDE considering its both cross platform and free as in beer.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#168

Post by pritambaral »

aforwardslash wrote: post #104
sergiotapia wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I learned to program with C# back in 2007. I have been following .NET and C# for more than a decade now, I look back fondly at my time with the language and people there. However, if the team is having this much internal struggle why would I ever come back? Why would I stake my business on another Oracle when there are much better alternatives?

Can you point any useful, non-esoteric language with a thriving ecosystem where the internal team doesn't have problems? I don't think so. For real drama, check the history of some well-known compilers/suites (such as the whole gcc vs egcs debacle), you'd be amazed.

Those dramas are a lot better than this. If I am being locked-in to a system, I'd much rather it was one of those than this Oracle wannabe.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#169

Post by igor_akhmetov »

babypuncher wrote: post #102
nodejs_rulez_1 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rider is a non-starter - doesn't even have a community edition.

This is what keeps me on Visual Studio. It's free for personal and open-source use, so I use it at home. Since I know it and am familiar with it, I make my employer pay for a commercial license at work. In the grand scheme of things, it is not that expensive in a commercial setting. VS Code is great, but I do not think it is a comprehensive replacement for Visual Studio proper when doing full stack .NET development.

Rider is also free for open-source and academic use.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#170

Post by noway421 »

pritambaral wrote: post #157
colejohnson66 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GitHub's workflow already bears little resemblance to a "real" Git workflow, Which is? Email lists? GitHub is much easier to deal with than scouring through email threads. It may work for Linux, GNU, and more, but it doesn’t for the majority of devs.

Email isn't the only way Git is used. In fact, email is explicitly external to Git; Got just cooperates well with it. You know what else Git cooperates with better? Push, pull, rebase, squash, a whole world of branching strategies etc. GitHub's PR model is artificially gimped against many useful features of git, to the point where I suspect they actively hate users creating commits and want themselves to be the only…

You can diff two tips like so:

https://github.com/{org}/{repo}/compare/{commitish1}..{commi...

Example:

https://github.com/facebook/react-native/compare/0.65-stable...

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