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.NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

devblogs.microsoft.com

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Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#101

Post by other_herbert »

moogly wrote: post #48
creato wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has anything ever actually replaced VS? I've only ever used VS for hobby/side projects, and even 10 years ago it was leaps and bounds better than what I have to use for my professional day to day work now (code completion, debugger are the two things that I miss basically every day). The tools that I use now have these features, but they're such a joke in comparison. The code completion has no notion of "code", it's…

For many workloads (at least .NET), JetBrains Rider. For C/C++ on Windows, well, you have VS Code and also JetBrains CLion, but IMO CLion is surprisingly rougher than Rider, even though it's older. You can get stuff done though.

I'll add my 0.02$ for rider too.. it even works (in EAP) for m1 arm... I do use vs code and rider depending on if I'm debugging something on the server or need to save the small amount of ram I've got on my air for debugging in the browser.. but m1 Rider is FAST.. far faster than even rider in linux on my xps with 32gb of ram

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#102

Post by babypuncher »

nodejs_rulez_1 wrote: post #89
moogly wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For many workloads (at least .NET), JetBrains Rider. For C/C++ on Windows, well, you have VS Code and also JetBrains CLion, but IMO CLion is surprisingly rougher than Rider, even though it's older. You can get stuff done though.

Rider is a non-starter - doesn't even have a community edition.

This is what keeps me on Visual Studio. It's free for personal and open-source use, so I use it at home.

Since I know it and am familiar with it, I make my employer pay for a commercial license at work. In the grand scheme of things, it is not that expensive in a commercial setting.

VS Code is great, but I do not think it is a comprehensive replacement for Visual Studio proper when doing full stack .NET development.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#103

Post by gbraad »

babypuncher wrote: post #102
nodejs_rulez_1 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rider is a non-starter - doesn't even have a community edition.

This is what keeps me on Visual Studio. It's free for personal and open-source use, so I use it at home. Since I know it and am familiar with it, I make my employer pay for a commercial license at work. In the grand scheme of things, it is not that expensive in a commercial setting. VS Code is great, but I do not think it is a comprehensive replacement for Visual Studio proper when doing full stack .NET development.

You can use OmniSharp. It is not ideal, but makes life easier.

Though it seems MS actively disallows employees to come n tribute to them.

If you do GUI work, you pretty much have to use VS. :-/

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#104

Post by aforwardslash »

sergiotapia wrote: post #100
nathanaldensr wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't dismiss .NET itself so easily. As you can see from this incident, there are elements even within Microsoft that don't inherently value the open source nature of the .NET team! .NET Core/.NET 5+ are already open source and highly philanthropic in nature. That doesn't change just because a completely different team--the Visual Studio team--is profit-oriented.

I learned to program with C# back in 2007. I have been following .NET and C# for more than a decade now, I look back fondly at my time with the language and people there. However, if the team is having this much internal struggle why would I ever come back? Why would I stake my business on another Oracle when there are much better alternatives?

Can you point any useful, non-esoteric language with a thriving ecosystem where the internal team doesn't have problems? I don't think so. For real drama, check the history of some well-known compilers/suites (such as the whole gcc vs egcs debacle), you'd be amazed.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#105

Post by kumarvvr »

oaiey wrote: post #39
fabian2k wrote: post #25

This feels more like an internal turf war inside Microsoft. The general open source strategy with .NET Core and VS Code has been running long enough that I don't think it's just a smoke screen. But there's probably plenty of different interests inside Microsoft that are at least partially in conflict. The Azure side probably doesn't care about selling Visual Studio, but they care about developer mindshare and reputat…

There are people on record that it was the Azure division head Scott Guthrie who gave permission to open source ASP.NET Core (which at the time was part of Azure). Later the asp.net team merged with the .net team and brought the open sourcing with them. VS has no place anymore. The velocity and mindshare is with VS Code. VS with its visual designers had its place .. but desktop is dead and Xamarin competes with frame…

> VS has no place anymore

I use the community version. VS Code, while being extremely good, is still far behind VS. I love using VS, as a solo developer. The integration it has WRT .NET projects is amazing.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#106

Post by nseggs »

oaiey wrote: post #39
fabian2k wrote: post #25

This feels more like an internal turf war inside Microsoft. The general open source strategy with .NET Core and VS Code has been running long enough that I don't think it's just a smoke screen. But there's probably plenty of different interests inside Microsoft that are at least partially in conflict. The Azure side probably doesn't care about selling Visual Studio, but they care about developer mindshare and reputat…

There are people on record that it was the Azure division head Scott Guthrie who gave permission to open source ASP.NET Core (which at the time was part of Azure). Later the asp.net team merged with the .net team and brought the open sourcing with them. VS has no place anymore. The velocity and mindshare is with VS Code. VS with its visual designers had its place .. but desktop is dead and Xamarin competes with frame…

Desktop is dead?

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#107

Post by zaphirplane »

asddubs wrote: post #99
johnfn wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why say you love open-source if you keep the juicy bits of Visual Studio Code closed-source? More like you love open-source... for making money. I really dislike this mindset. Sure, it's disappointing that some pieces of VSCode aren't open-sourced, but man, they open-sourced an entire IDE and plugin ecosystem. That's such a fantastic contribution to the open source community, and yet I see comments like yours that…

IntelliJ doesn't pretend to be anything it's not. VSCode does act as a bit of a trojan horse with its proprietary extensions. I do think it's a bit of a smokescreen

In what way ?

Jet brains makes a free open source product and has a paid for product with extra features

Ms makes a free open source product with a paid product with more features (thou different code base)

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#108

Post by pionar »

oaiey wrote: post #6

He wrote some "face keeping" Blabla but then the key fact: admitting that they made a mistake and misunderstood the community wish. A step in the right direction.

He admitted no such thing. He said there was a mistake in the "execution" of the decision, when it's the decision itself that's the problem, not the way they executed.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#109

Post by skywhopper »

johnfn wrote: post #53
usui wrote: post #8

A hot-button issue gets corrected now, but then they continue to make subtler moves. Why say you love open-source if you keep the juicy bits of Visual Studio Code closed-source? More like you love open-source... for making money. Microsoft is a big company with changing microcultures all the time. They alone as a whole should not take credit for their open-source endeavors. In general, big contributor names should be…

> Why say you love open-source if you keep the juicy bits of Visual Studio Code closed-source? More like you love open-source... for making money. I really dislike this mindset. Sure, it's disappointing that some pieces of VSCode aren't open-sourced, but man, they open-sourced an entire IDE and plugin ecosystem. That's such a fantastic contribution to the open source community, and yet I see comments like yours that…

IntelliJ does not have a long history of abusing its monopoly positions to the detriment of its users and developers, nor does it own the biggest default open source code collaboration platform. I think anyone who is not heavily skeptical of Microsoft’s long term intentions here (whether they are explicit goals or just natural outgrowths of being a monopolist) is either shockingly ignorant or willfully naive.

Things will get ugly sooner or later, to the dev industry’s detriment. Insisting that one of the biggest tech companies on earth, with a history of abusing its power, go further than smaller companies is not unfair. In order to retain trust, Microsoft needs to put restraints on its own behavior and be open about it.

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