Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

thedrive.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 326 posts

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#161

Post by drran »

morsch wrote: post #130
mschuster91 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have literally been caught financing Brexit and every major alt-right, antidemocratic, Europe-skeptic party there is - Germany's AfD, France's FN, Italy's Salvini bunch. Russia is a threat to democracy and an enemy of Europe, directly competing with China.

Well yeah, but the thread so far was referring to military threats.

If Russian Federation can be beaten by west military, then it's stupid to threat western countries in any way. They can bluff West for a few years, but then what?

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#162

Post by LunaSea »

elmo2you wrote: post #139
thefounder wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well Russia already anexed Crimea and is fighting a proxy war in Ukraine. You may not find Ukraine enough European for you to count. Next: other Eastern European countries. Next: the baltic countries.

> Well Russia already annexed Crimea .. Yet another show of either (willful) ignorance or (intentional) peddling of (Western) propaganda. People may think whatever they want about what happened to Crimea and Eastern Ukraine, but to called that an annexation (or an invasion, as many have) is disingenuous as best. It's no secret (in fact, it's on public record) that it was the USA who pumped copious amounts of money in…

The facts remain:

- Ukraine was an independent country that got invaded by a neighbouring country's military

- Georgia was an independent country that got invaded by a neighbouring country's military

Russia also regularly crosses neighbouring countries' (Sweden, Finland, Alaska, etc.) borders with fighter planes, boats and submarines.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#163

Post by lenkite »

vishnugupta wrote: post #109
Atlantium wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No nation is friends with another nation. Nations are allies. Ally : a state formally cooperating with another for a military or other purpose. Friend : a person whom one knows and with whom one has a bond of mutual affection, typically exclusive of sexual or family relations. Allies work together for rational mutual purposes, friends work together for emotional reasons. Besides, humans of all nations have far too ma…

This is a good model to refer to from time to time. I would add that "ally" doesn't mean co-operate in all spheres. It's perfectly reasonable for two nations to have border skirmishes and have bi/multi-lateral trade agreements simultaneously. A nation is a multifaceted entity and it isn't possible to model it as one single blob. Inter-nation relationships are very fluid, and evolving all the time. I find it funny whe…

I guess you are not from a military family. It is pretty well known in military intelligence circles that China wishes to annex the eastern Indian states. They already consider several areas of the Indian eastern states within their national borders - see the official national maps of the PLA.

PLA has official strategy - part of their SOP inculcated into their officer corps - to regularly push incursions into Indian territory and check the response of the Indian central government. We have already lost 1000 square km over the last couple of years. 38,000 square km over the last decade if you consider our formally acknowledged boundaries.

So, yes, unless you wish to lose the Indian eastern states, access to natural resources and secede control over the vast majority of the Indian water supply, one will need to remain vigilant and ready. That includes heavy military readiness.

The other option is to kneel to China and become a vassal state. No double the condition of roads would improve ? All you have to do is love the CCP.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#164

Post by nix23 »

lenkite wrote: post #142
hestefisk wrote: post #61

I’m a Danish citizen. The story doesn’t really surprise me (given the news a few years back that US spy on EU MPs in Brussels by eavesdropping Belgian telcos). The worst part is the complete apathy from Danish politicians to stand up against this kind of spying and take action. It’s completely unacceptable and should be prosecuted; yet none of the centrist parties are interested in or motivated by standing up against…

Please let the EU develop its own standing military force independent of NATO and US. It's truly about time this happened. We need a third counterpart to China and the USA.

No please, i don't want a big German directed army again.

But something like NATO but just for Europa..that would be a good idea.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#165

Post by HatchedLake721 »

paganel wrote: post #110
cturner wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the idea of a European army to be the stuff of fantasy. The reason Europe is so dependent on the US is because European NATO members have for decades chosen not to honour their spending and capability obligations to that treaty. Certainly this includes Denmark. A quick google suggests this rich nation is spending 1.3% instead of the 2% minimum. Meanwhile, Russia, a less prosperous nation with a history of musc…

The problem with an European Army is that the French or the Italians or even the Germans won't send their young men to die at the Eastern border in order to defend Poland or Romania, it's as simple as that (see also the "phoney war" that only ended when Nazi Germany actually decided to invade France and the Benelux). The Americans inspire a little more trust, even though they live half a world away (maybe because of…

It’s the same thing with NATO. If Russia invades Baltic’s tomorrow, you think USA will send boots on the ground and all European NATO members will sit still?

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#166

Post by mrweasel »

cturner wrote: post #103
thefounder wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> motivated by standing up against the US and their illegal activities. They know they can't do much to stand up against US. I may be wrong but I think Denmark's security is based on US millitary support through NATO. This applies to most EU countries. Russia is too threatening to upset your security guarantor. Here you have it, it's no secret: Denmark opposes the creation of a "European army" to defend the E.U. fro…

I find the idea of a European army to be the stuff of fantasy. The reason Europe is so dependent on the US is because European NATO members have for decades chosen not to honour their spending and capability obligations to that treaty. Certainly this includes Denmark. A quick google suggests this rich nation is spending 1.3% instead of the 2% minimum. Meanwhile, Russia, a less prosperous nation with a history of musc…

I'm actually pretty disappointed with the Danish politicians answers as to why we're not at 2%. They try to put "cyber defense" in as a military expect, even if the job description suggests that it's actually just police work and therefor should count in the 2%. We also frequently claim that foreign aid should be counted as part of our NATO contribution, because it prevents war. While that may be true, Danish politicians should and do know that the 2% for defense was never meant as anything but pure military expenses. Claiming that we don't need to spend as much as 2% of GDP isn't the point, we promised our NATO partners that we would. If 2% is to much, then work to change the NATO rules, don't just ignore them.

The US is absolutely right to be upset that it's NATO partners isn't fulfilling their part of the deal and instead rely on US tax payers for their defense.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#167

Post by ohgodplsno »

goatinaboat wrote: post #125
throwaway4good wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. France alone probably has sufficient military power to balance Russia. European countries can stand up to what is obviously unacceptable (industrial espionage conducted by US military intelligence). But Denmark in the later years have chosen not to.

France alone probably has sufficient military power to balance Russia. It depends on the theatre. At sea, probably, in a nuclear exchange France has sufficient deterrent capability. But in a land war, tank on tank the way God meant it to be, France’s 200 tanks are no match for Russia’s thousands. Remember purchasing power parity. Russia may be poorer than France, but it’s stuff costs a lot less too.

France has 222 active Leclercs, with 260 more in storage. Around 400 AMX variants too. Russia has around 300 known T90s, which are the real threat that matches a Leclerc. The rest are T80s, T72s and older, which, while absolutely dwarfing the french numbers, forgets about a tiny thing: they are absolutely _awful_ tanks compared to modern stuff. A Leclerc will happily shrug off T72s.

Additionally, Rafales are more than a strong contender to Russia's Su35. A dozen Reapers too, for good measure.

France isn't the world's fifth military power and one of the biggest seller of weapons for no reason.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#168

Post by nl »

nix23 wrote: post #155
goatinaboat wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France alone probably has sufficient military power to balance Russia. It depends on the theatre. At sea, probably, in a nuclear exchange France has sufficient deterrent capability. But in a land war, tank on tank the way God meant it to be, France’s 200 tanks are no match for Russia’s thousands. Remember purchasing power parity. Russia may be poorer than France, but it’s stuff costs a lot less too.

>tank on tank the way God meant it to be Tanks are not used for that anymore, they are used as little fortresses in cities, but fighting on a open field..well you have seen what happened in the first and second iraq war.

You have this completely backwards.

Tanks are deathtraps in cities. Attackers trap them with obstacles and then attack with RPGs. See the footage on YouTube in Chechnya or Syria.

In the open battlefield as in Iraq 1 (especially) and 2 they were very effective although of course airpower is the key factor.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#169

Post by nl »

Dahoon wrote: post #159
jonathanstrange wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was an invasion and annexation according to international law. That is crystal clear and there is not even any leeway for interpretation about it. On a side note, the kind of justifications / rationalization you give for the annexation - somebody installed politicians there that were not pleasing Russia enough - are not only factually incorrect, too, they are also irrelevant to the question whether the Crimea was…

Your comment reads like you only read the first sentence. Nothing you said disproves the facts he stated.

The facts he stated were all Russian justifications for the invasion.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#170

Post by drran »

paganel wrote: post #110
cturner wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the idea of a European army to be the stuff of fantasy. The reason Europe is so dependent on the US is because European NATO members have for decades chosen not to honour their spending and capability obligations to that treaty. Certainly this includes Denmark. A quick google suggests this rich nation is spending 1.3% instead of the 2% minimum. Meanwhile, Russia, a less prosperous nation with a history of musc…

The problem with an European Army is that the French or the Italians or even the Germans won't send their young men to die at the Eastern border in order to defend Poland or Romania, it's as simple as that (see also the "phoney war" that only ended when Nazi Germany actually decided to invade France and the Benelux). The Americans inspire a little more trust, even though they live half a world away (maybe because of…

USA did not send his young men to die at Easterner border, despite the guarantees of safety for Ukraine. Ukraine exchanged nuclear weapons for guarantees of safety (Budapest memorandum) by RF, GB, and USA, and then screwed.
Post reply on HN