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The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

mosaicscience.com

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Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#131

Post by grzm »

obmelvin wrote: post #127
djsumdog wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> good nutrition (veggies, nuts, olive oil, eggs, etc.) I'd highly recommend reducing carb intake; cut out your bread, sugar, starch, pasta and try to stick with meat and greens. Low carb diets (Keto, Adkins, etc.) made a huge difference for me health wise.

Ugh. Carbs are fuel. Cutting out the specifics you mentioned are good, but generally cutting out carbs is not good for most people.

Carbs are one source of fuel/calories. Fats are another, and protein as well (albeit to a much lesser extent).

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#132

Post by crooked-v »

b0rsuk wrote: post #120
uhhyeahdude wrote: post #17

How very odd for me to find this on HN this evening. I'm on "day 2" of my once a week sleep fast, which means things are a bit surreal to begin with. For each of the last seven weeks, I stay awake from Thursday morning until my "regular" bedtime hour Friday evening. I do this because it actually seems to be an effective way to avoid falling into a hole of anhedonia and "stuck-ness." I am hip to many of the cognitive…

I had major depression for a couple of years and here's how I eventually got out of it: 1) regular exercise. Start small, you're not supposed to break records. But it's very important to do it regularly. You can start with one exercise, like cycling or pushups, and then in later weeks or months add more once you feel you got the hang of it. Also, I think aerobic exercises on fresh air like cycling, jogging or even go…

For the Vitamin D in particular, there's recentish news that suggests most people in general may be somewhat Vitamin D-deficient and that the recommended daily dose should be sharply raised.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#133

Post by wslh »

ada1981 wrote: post #43

The most useful model of depression I've found is that it's anger directed inward. Essentially, a restriction of emotional freedom and a suppression of feeling all our emotions. This is typically due to trauma or neglect or some other developmental adaptation not to feel fully. This is reinforced by a culture in which people try to fix or cheer you up when sad or angry. In a culture where actually feeling basic human…

Excellent comment. Returned after some hours to check if some other people followed your thread and I felt the need to give you this simple feedback.

Feelings/Emotions are a neglected part of our western culture.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#134

Post by milesvp »

crooked-v wrote: post #132
b0rsuk wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had major depression for a couple of years and here's how I eventually got out of it: 1) regular exercise. Start small, you're not supposed to break records. But it's very important to do it regularly. You can start with one exercise, like cycling or pushups, and then in later weeks or months add more once you feel you got the hang of it. Also, I think aerobic exercises on fresh air like cycling, jogging or even go…

For the Vitamin D in particular, there's recentish news that suggests most people in general may be somewhat Vitamin D-deficient and that the recommended daily dose should be sharply raised.

I will add a point if enec-data. I live in Seattle, and have sun avoidance tendencies. I take 2000iu if D3 daily in pill form. I find that my depressive type moods tend to be highly correlated to when I've forgotten to take my D3 for days or weeks at a time. Usually its because I've run out and forget to pick some up. I don't notice for a while, then a week or two later I realize I've been sinking into a funky mood and make a priority to pick more up. Usually I perk back up after a day ir two.

The caveat being it's hard to tell if I'm already coming out of a funk and that's why I can run errands again like going to the store, or if just doing things 'to take care of myself' are triggering the upswing. But I still try not to run out of D3 especially in the winter.

Also know that you can overdose on vitamin D, so it's best to take in the morning rather than night. The body naturally stops production as you reach certain levels so you're not likely to get too much, even if you spend all day in the sun.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#135

Post by elcapitan »

geoka9 wrote: post #96

Haven't read the article yet, but it sounds grim, I don't think it can be good for me. Instead of forced sleep deprivation, try this for a week: intermittent fasting and calorie restriction, good nutrition (veggies, nuts, olive oil, eggs, etc.), no drinking (at all), going to bed early (like 10 pm), waking up early (at dawn in the summer at 4 am would be perfect), but naturally, without an alarm clock. Doing this, yo…

> waking up early (at dawn in the summer at 4 am would be perfect), but naturally, without an alarm clock

There are alarm clocks that simulate a sun rise (over half an hour or so), which works well for me in winter. It allows to wake up slowly without the stress of a noise in the middle of the dark night.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#136

Post by 52-6F-62 »

sutterbomb wrote: post #130
52-6F-62 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that calorie reduction to that degree increases the chance (body type-dependant) that your’ll induce starvation prevention reactions in your body. An at rest adult human typically requires 2000 calorie sharing a day to maintain weight. That’s if you never left your bed. Regularly reducing that further will cause your body to store more energy which results in fat gain. And not always the good kind. The simple wa…

The IF literature I’ve read indicates that calorie reduction isn’t really a goal, though it often happens to some degree. But I’m generally not taking in 2/3rd of prior calories just because I’m eating 2/3rd of the meals - more like 3/4 or 4/5. This is all new to me so curious where you’re getting this info from so I can read up.

No problem. I really brought up calories, etc due to the other posters mentioning limited weight loss (or sometimes gain) as well as increased cholesterol even though they were reducing the frequency of meals (I was guessing at a reduction in calories because of that, though it’s fair to say that I don’t really have that insight in this case)

The info I’m conveying is part coaching, part experience/anecdotal, and part reading aggregate from health studies, running and sports health magazines, as well as general health magazines.

My parents were national-level athletes (70’s/80’s) and, later on, coaches. My mother was certified to coach in the Olympics (though she did not and continued her work locally). I was an athlete when I was younger and learned most of it then, but have in recent years taken a return to focusing more on my health. Also much of my reading stemmed from trying to lose weight after quitting smoking (also went from a physical job to a physically-idle one around the same time. Gained nearly 50 pounds. I was on antidepressants and anxiolytics at the same time. It was messy)

My girlfriend’s step mother is competing at the world championship Iron Man race this fall in Kona, and her advice was much the same (we plug everyone we can for coaching. Her stepmom even has her on a custom workout).

I don’t have much hard reading I can provide off hand, but a few searches surrounding the points I put out there should yield quite a bit of information. Primarily links between excercise and how it helps with depression and anxiety, and metabolic studies including starvation responses.

If you want to continue the discussion further I’d be happy to, and happy to help find further info that might resound more than some hexadecimal-aliased rambler on a message board. ;)

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#137

Post by frankzinger »

EGreg wrote: post #124
brazzledazzle wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really enjoy that surreal aspect of sleep deprivation. Everything seems to be a bit different through that lens–almost, but not quite like a fresh perspective. Not quite because it feels like you had it all along. Maybe it’s just elucidation but that doesn’t feel apt either. I don’t know your writing style generally speaking but this comment feels slightly tinged with that surreal feeling (in a positive way). Of co…

I get more irritable when sleep deprived. Anyone else have the same thing? I don't think purposely incurring sleep debt is for me. Maybe others handle it better.

Yep, I have noticed this myself. I am much more likely to get into fights when sleep deprived. I have less patience with people.

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#139

Post by xolox »

EGreg wrote: post #124
brazzledazzle wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really enjoy that surreal aspect of sleep deprivation. Everything seems to be a bit different through that lens–almost, but not quite like a fresh perspective. Not quite because it feels like you had it all along. Maybe it’s just elucidation but that doesn’t feel apt either. I don’t know your writing style generally speaking but this comment feels slightly tinged with that surreal feeling (in a positive way). Of co…

I get more irritable when sleep deprived. Anyone else have the same thing? I don't think purposely incurring sleep debt is for me. Maybe others handle it better.

This thread piqued my interest because I have a love/hate relationship with sleep deprivation that touches on what you mentioned:

- On the positive side of the scale, sleep deprivation can boost my creativity and ability to focus enormously, every now and then (context: as a programmer).

- On the negative side of the scale, I would be fooling myself if I pretended that this doesn't make me more irritable in the days after.

Over the years I'm slowly but surely learning how to balance these things against each other and pick suitable moments for these creative outbursts without overdoing it :-).

Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation

#140

Post by xolox »

elcapitan wrote: post #135
geoka9 wrote: post #96

Haven't read the article yet, but it sounds grim, I don't think it can be good for me. Instead of forced sleep deprivation, try this for a week: intermittent fasting and calorie restriction, good nutrition (veggies, nuts, olive oil, eggs, etc.), no drinking (at all), going to bed early (like 10 pm), waking up early (at dawn in the summer at 4 am would be perfect), but naturally, without an alarm clock. Doing this, yo…

> waking up early (at dawn in the summer at 4 am would be perfect), but naturally, without an alarm clock There are alarm clocks that simulate a sun rise (over half an hour or so), which works well for me in winter. It allows to wake up slowly without the stress of a noise in the middle of the dark night.

I've been using a Philips Wake-up Light for this in the past four years and it helps me a lot in winter. It's not perfect but it's a lot better than waking up to a screaming alarm clock :-).

Recently I replaced most of the lights in my house with Philips Hue lights and I was pleased to find out that these can also be used as wake-up lights. This seems to work even better for me, possibly because the bedroom lights up more evenly (as opposed to the wake-up light right next to my bed).

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