For me, the big shock has always been the extent to which sleep can kill a fantastic streak of productivity. I sometimes have weeks of incredible energy, where I work 12 or even 14 hours every day, and I do my best work, and I have deep insights, and invent new products and new kinds of software. And generally, over the course of a week or two, I become more productive each day. And finally I have a day when I am on fire and I'm writing incredible code and I'm writing some of my most popular essays, the stuff that continues to be read years later. And I go to sleep thinking that tomorrow will be just as good. And I sleep 9 hours. And I wake up and I am a completely different person. My thoughts don't make sense. I'm a bit disoriented. I drink 3 cups of coffee but I still feel groggy. I have no energy. The magic is gone. I'm lucky if I get 4 hours of good work done. And the next day is terrible, and the next day is terrible, and the so on. And it is always a shock what a sudden start there is to this prolonged grogginess, and it always seems to start with one night where I sleep a bit too long.
The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation
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Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation
#62For me, the big shock has always been the extent to which sleep can kill a fantastic streak of productivity. I sometimes have weeks of incredible energy, where I work 12 or even 14 hours every day, and I do my best work, and I have deep insights, and invent new products and new kinds of software. And generally, over the course of a week or two, I become more productive each day. And finally I have a day when I am on…
Maybe you’re mixing up cause and effect. Maybe your “sleep” was collapsing with exhaustion when it all caught up?
Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation
#63How very odd for me to find this on HN this evening. I'm on "day 2" of my once a week sleep fast, which means things are a bit surreal to begin with. For each of the last seven weeks, I stay awake from Thursday morning until my "regular" bedtime hour Friday evening. I do this because it actually seems to be an effective way to avoid falling into a hole of anhedonia and "stuck-ness." I am hip to many of the cognitive…
I really enjoy that surreal aspect of sleep deprivation. Everything seems to be a bit different through that lens–almost, but not quite like a fresh perspective. Not quite because it feels like you had it all along. Maybe it’s just elucidation but that doesn’t feel apt either. I don’t know your writing style generally speaking but this comment feels slightly tinged with that surreal feeling (in a positive way).
Of course the major downside is, as you mentioned, a decline in executive function. I find myself trying to filter things I say manually with mixed results. Rambling is definitely magnified.
Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation
#64For me, the big shock has always been the extent to which sleep can kill a fantastic streak of productivity. I sometimes have weeks of incredible energy, where I work 12 or even 14 hours every day, and I do my best work, and I have deep insights, and invent new products and new kinds of software. And generally, over the course of a week or two, I become more productive each day. And finally I have a day when I am on…
This almost sounds like a mild manic swing followed by a crash.
Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation
#65Somehow my quackery detectors go off on this one, but I'm not quite sure. The article talks about "recent studies" without linking to them. The "references" section at the end links to a single peer-reviewed article ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5447205/ ) in a journal with an impact factor of less then one (compare https://www.researchgate.net/journal/0379-5284_Saudi_medical... for example). If it w…
I felt a little bit like this last time the subject was on HN, and after similarly looking into the research further, I feel like the treatment is valid and works, but only for specific people with specific problems. It's very important that the article qualifies this as working only for severe depression and/or possibly bipolar disorder.
Treatments having the opposite effect on someone with an uncommon symptom as they do on the general population aren't unheard of. Like how some people with real ADHD are calmed by caffeine.
I attribute my disbelief about sleep deprivation to not having heard about this before and to the mountain of social narrative around good regular sleep being so critically important to your health, which also has evidence but isn't trivial to pin down specifically by reading research journals.
Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation
#66Roughly 2 years ago I fell into a depression because of debilitating anxiety. The anxiety would keep me awake through the night. Low and behold the whole next day the depression and anxiety would be gone. I wouldn't be overly tired either, so the trade off was fine. This would happen roughly once or twice a week. Always, the next day following a sleepless night I pretty much felt 'normal'. Eventually I swallowed my p…
Good job. That's all I can say. Good job.
Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation
#67This article confuses depression and bipolar disorder quite a bit. They're inducing mania through sleep deprivation in patients with bipolar disorder going through a period of depression. This is somewhat dangerous, as mania can have severe consequences. The article even states that there's a 95% relapse into depression for those not taking lithium. Only people with BPD take lithium. It's not about the lithium, it's about that population having BPD.
DO NOT TRY THIS IF YOU HAVE BIPOLAR DISORDER WITHOUT MEDICAL SUPERVISION. Inducing mania could ruin your life. If you don't have BPD, then this likely won't work anyway.
I have several family members with BPD. Irregular sleep schedule is a major warning sign that mania is coming on, and interrupted sleep schedule can induce mania.
I can see why you might try this in a controlled setting, and I'm not saying it doesn't work. I'm just saying that this is very dangerous, and should not be done without qualified medical supervision.
Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation
#68My personal experience is exactly the opposite. Lack of sleep induces depression. This is also supported by many studies. I recommend this read http://healthysleep.med.harvard.edu/healthy/matters/conseque...
exactly the same. Just one nights poor sleep and the overcompensation of the mind makes life a living hell. Anxiety, depression and feeling like in a haze is absolute torture.
Poor sleep I would think is different than no sleep. The nights I get poor sleep, approximately 2~3 hours or less, the following day would be nothing but intrusive thoughts, depression about those thoughts and exhaustion. The nights I had NO sleep the following day all of those symptoms would virtually be gone.
Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation
#69"if you’re depressed, [sleep deprivation] can prompt an immediate improvement in mood, and in cognitive abilities. But, Benedetti adds, there’s a catch: once you go to sleep and catch up on those missed hours of sleep, you’ll have a 95 per cent chance of relapse." Sounds like there's a high risk for turning depression into insomnia. Not sure if it's an improvement.
Yep, once I caught up on my sleep the next day would be the same anxiety, depression cycle all over. Crazy to read about this today after having this exact phenomenon happen to me years ago.
Re: The antidepressant effect of sleep deprivation
#70My personal experience is exactly the opposite. Lack of sleep induces depression. This is also supported by many studies. I recommend this read http://healthysleep.med.harvard.edu/healthy/matters/conseque...
Exact same experiences here. As soon as I start to develop a sleep deficit, all those negative feelings come racing back.