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Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

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Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#111

Post by whywhywhywhy »

morsch wrote: post #92
xk_id wrote: post #41

Probably going to be short lasted, as the nutritional deficiencies caused by those products start to produce symptoms. Then plant based diets will become stigmatised. The trend in plant foods to label them with names for animal products is very misleading when the nutritional profiles have absolutely nothing in common. Oat “milk” is basically flavoured water; soy “milk” has a little bit of nutrients in it, but it’s n…

Lots of people eat these products without being vegan or vegetarian.

Don’t know why you’d eat the fake versions if you could have the real ones.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#112

Post by AlecSchueler »

Reason077 wrote: post #100
_cenw wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Milk was heavily subsidized and the prices were pushed to a point where all but the largest scale producers were making losses (~30 cents per liter) where I live whereas the price of plant based milk used to have a huge novely / vegan markup that wasn't based in production cost. The cost of plant based milk is not exactly much less than dairy now, but it is actually cheaper if you go by discount brand prices. That so…

Here in the UK, plant based milks are typically more expensive than cow’s milk, particularly if you go for the well-known brands (Alpro, Oatly, etc) Typically in a corner shop you’re paying around £2 for 1 litre of plant milk, compared to £1.25 for 2 pints (1.13L) of cow’s milk. That doesn’t seem to have dampened demand for plant milks, however!

Jealous that you get a choice. Netherlands here which is actually better for vegan options as a whole than the UK in my experience but never found a corner shop With anything but cow dairy.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#113

Post by AlecSchueler »

CalRobert wrote: post #109
oifjsidjf wrote: post #55

>> The Good Food Institute Europe (GFI Europe) reports that sales of plant-based foods across 13 European nations amounted to €5.7 billion in 2022. The good food institude is the lobbying arm of the lab grown protein companies. >> ...a Y Combinator funded non-profit that promotes plant- and cultivated meat alternatives to conventional animal meat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Friedrich Also look at stocks at th…

Good points until you showed obvious bias with the "fake food" comment.

Was already there with "lab grown protein" instead of vegan meat, meat substitute etc.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#114

Post by AlecSchueler »

aziaziazi wrote: post #89
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but there can be nutritional benefits hiding in certain cheeses. Vitamin K2 can be tricky to find in plant sources - natto being the only one I can think of and it's tricky to find here in the UK. Roquefort has been hailed as the important part of the "French paradox" (French cardiovascular health tends to be much better than their high fat diet would suggest). I do like my f…

Thanks, didn’t know the k2 can be sourced in kimchi ! Totally agree with not throwing the baby with the water. As for most poisons, just a bit has a good effect, think red wine.

Microdosing hemlock the next big thing?

I thought the benefits of red wine came from stuff like the tannin and could be gotten otherwise from non poisonous sources.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#115

Post by whywhywhywhy »

deepsun wrote: post #6
mvdwoord wrote: post #4

Plenty to improve in food production, sure, but the current move towards hyper processed foods is dumb. They can take the animal meat (and eggs, and dairy products) from my cold dead hands..

Relax, no one is really considering meat foods to go away in the next 100 years or so. It's all about the access to the vegetarian and vegan foods to those who want it, and it happens to become more popular, so market adapts. But you present it like someone tries to take your food.

If you could remove meat from the supply chain and be the main supplier for the alternative, why wouldn’t you choose to profit from that?

The upside for the politicians and suppliers seems too astronomical not to be at least thinking about it.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#116

Post by AlecSchueler »

GuB-42 wrote: post #61
kfk wrote: post #12

I am getting a bit deeper into the food industry since I started investing in a startup that plans to produce animal feed with insects. Animal feeds are prepared with specific properties, for instance, fish feed at 60% protein. The impact of different percentages of compounds is measured closely on animal well being, growth, weight… I am quite bothered that we don’t do the same for human foods. We lighlty compare rea…

Vegans are usually aware of nutritional values and know how to have a healthy diet without meat, it may include supplementation (vitamin B12 in particular). Probably better than the average meat eater who doesn't care. Remember that humans are omnivores, we are less picky eaters than most animals.

B12 is often added to the like of oat milk directly.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#117

Post by Retric »

Amezarak wrote: post #107
Eduard wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The evidence I've seen seems to indicate that meat and dairy are the healthy alternative. They also have centuries of safety data, unlike many (most?) vegan alternatives, which rely heavily on such things as canola oil and have to be engineered. I doubt you'll agree, and I'm sure you'll be able to pull out some studies suggesting otherwise, but perhaps we can agree we shouldn't be making policy decisions that shift t…

Nutrition isn’t in its infancy. The real issue is people assume small changes in diet are more important than they are.

Fiber for example is useful for mechanical reasons in your digestive system, but you don’t actually digest it. It’s possible to be completely healthy and eat essentially zero fiber. Similarly eating massive quantities of fiber isn’t particularly beneficial.

There’s this misconception that there’s some single ideal diet and anything else is unhealthy. But we turn a high percentage of our food into energy and excrete stuff we don’t need. That provides extreme flexibility assuming you’re eating a wide range of plants and animals it’s probably fine. Eat a more limited diet and you have to be more careful, but not excessively so.

Of course when you take an even closer look things do get more complex, but for most people it’s not particularly relevant. The biggest issue is simply number of calories.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#118

Post by geoah »

Reason077 wrote: post #100
_cenw wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Milk was heavily subsidized and the prices were pushed to a point where all but the largest scale producers were making losses (~30 cents per liter) where I live whereas the price of plant based milk used to have a huge novely / vegan markup that wasn't based in production cost. The cost of plant based milk is not exactly much less than dairy now, but it is actually cheaper if you go by discount brand prices. That so…

Here in the UK, plant based milks are typically more expensive than cow’s milk, particularly if you go for the well-known brands (Alpro, Oatly, etc) Typically in a corner shop you’re paying around £2 for 1 litre of plant milk, compared to £1.25 for 2 pints (1.13L) of cow’s milk. That doesn’t seem to have dampened demand for plant milks, however!

Is this just a London thing or can you actually get alternatives as easily in other parts of the country?

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#119

Post by throwaway290 »

somedude895 wrote: post #105
oifjsidjf wrote: post #55

>> The Good Food Institute Europe (GFI Europe) reports that sales of plant-based foods across 13 European nations amounted to €5.7 billion in 2022. The good food institude is the lobbying arm of the lab grown protein companies. >> ...a Y Combinator funded non-profit that promotes plant- and cultivated meat alternatives to conventional animal meat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Friedrich Also look at stocks at th…

All the overvalued growth stocks are going down because the supply of easy money dried up. The massive rise in BYND share price was always ridiculous. Their products are easy to replicate and companies like Nestlé have way more resources to bring them to market successfully and sustainably, which they're doing now.

Somebody not eating animal products for ethical reasons will not buy anything from Nestle given a choice, for very same reasons. And yes, we who avoid Nestle pay more for alternatives, but if you know their business practices there's no moral choice.

Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs

#120

Post by morsch »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #111
morsch wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people eat these products without being vegan or vegetarian.

Don’t know why you’d eat the fake versions if you could have the real ones.

Tastes fine, can share a meal with people who are vegetarian, enviromental concerns, novelty.
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