Plenty to improve in food production, sure, but the current move towards hyper processed foods is dumb. They can take the animal meat (and eggs, and dairy products) from my cold dead hands..
Same. No-one has yet been able to explain why I should exchange a well-functioning animal-based diet into a vegan one where I need to supplement by default to fulfill human needs. I have respect for those who do it on the basis of animal compassion, but claiming healthiness is obviously a false statement.
Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs
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Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs
#72I am getting a bit deeper into the food industry since I started investing in a startup that plans to produce animal feed with insects. Animal feeds are prepared with specific properties, for instance, fish feed at 60% protein. The impact of different percentages of compounds is measured closely on animal well being, growth, weight… I am quite bothered that we don’t do the same for human foods. We lighlty compare rea…
We've also been aggressively selecting traits in animals, grains, vegetables and fruits at an accelerating pace. I'm worried that modern carrots are lacking in nutrition due to being heavily selected for size and colour.
The difference between supermarket produce (fruit/veg) and greengrocer produce is night and day IMO.
As for carrots specifically, I did notice that the greengrocer carrots often are individually smaller and more fucked up looking than the supermarket ones, and taste more intensely.
Interestingly the greengrocer is often cheaper on some things than even the discounter supermarkets, and is MUCH cheaper if you factor in spoilage, disposal of packaging waste, etc.
Same goes for meat products - buying them from a good butchers can often work out cheaper than the supermarket (precise control over cuts, etc), far less waste, professional advice on preparation, higher quality, etc.
Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
We’re only a few disasters away from the government deciding that the climate crisis requires drastic measures, including a severe rationing of meat and other products considered harmful to the environment. It’s clear from the rhetoric that this is the direction we are moving in, and it’s also clear that a great percentage of the population will comply and even celebrate such restrictions.
Maybe it’s time we take action to reduce the severity of the crisis before we end up in the scenario you describe.
Institutional science is politics. It’s no longer possible to systemically create the kind of feedback loop necessary to take any kind of intelligent action, nor is there political will. It’s far more politically expedient in the near term for the powers that be to say that whatever measures they’ve implemented do in fact work and then let the networked tribe punish anyone who dissents.
Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs
#74[dead]
Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs
#75I am getting a bit deeper into the food industry since I started investing in a startup that plans to produce animal feed with insects. Animal feeds are prepared with specific properties, for instance, fish feed at 60% protein. The impact of different percentages of compounds is measured closely on animal well being, growth, weight… I am quite bothered that we don’t do the same for human foods. We lighlty compare rea…
> We lighlty compare real milk with plant based milk without being honest about the completely different properties of the two.
We’re talking about individual products. People who just vegan milk do so because they switched their diet (and this step requires you to think about proportions or else).
Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs
#76Plenty to improve in food production, sure, but the current move towards hyper processed foods is dumb. They can take the animal meat (and eggs, and dairy products) from my cold dead hands..
If you don’t buy them from very traditional read very expensive producers it is also very unnatural. Animals are simply used as self replacing bio reactors that are fed the cheapest inputs like grain and animal remains. Even the vitamin d in milk is mostly there because you just supplement the animals. I visit a small farm on vacation a few times a year and they have a bunch of chicken running around. I have no qualm…
In many parts of Europe buying from the traditional local style of producer is the cheaper way to buy animal products.
Supermarket meats often contain a fair bit of water weight IME.
Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs
#77Correlation is not causation. As a European myself here is another correlation that probably has a lot more to do with the fact that people in Europe are not buying as much high quality food: After the politicians printed so much money in order to pay for COVID costs, general inflation has accumulated to 18% or so, split in two years of 8-9%. Basic food after Ukraine disruption of cereal and oils and increment in ene…
> Correlation is not causation. As a European myself here is another correlation that probably has a lot more to do with the fact that people in Europe are not buying as much high quality food […] After the politicians printed so much money in order to pay for COVID costs, general inflation has accumulated to 18% or so, split in two years of 8-9%.
It's a nice theory and it would be very believable, if the trend to eat less meat would be a recent change. However per capita meat consumption has been dropping in Europe for 15 years straight. The biggest decrease was from 2015-2020 which was a 0% inflation period.
Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs
#78Plenty to improve in food production, sure, but the current move towards hyper processed foods is dumb. They can take the animal meat (and eggs, and dairy products) from my cold dead hands..
Same. No-one has yet been able to explain why I should exchange a well-functioning animal-based diet into a vegan one where I need to supplement by default to fulfill human needs. I have respect for those who do it on the basis of animal compassion, but claiming healthiness is obviously a false statement.
Hang on, I think you’re muddying the waters here. A vegan diet is purely done for animal compassion. A vegan diet, a plant-based diet and even whole food plant-based diet are different diets.
Veganism is a lifestyle based around the notion of reducing as much harm to animals a feasibly possible. No one claims that a vegan diet is centred around health. After all, you could be vegan and eat nothing but Oreo’s and Dorito’s.
Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's funny you are worried about the impact of vegan alternatives and not, say, sugars, alcohol, overly fatty or salty foods, too much bad quality meat raised with hormones etc. It's almost like you have a bias against the vegan alternative.. Edit: ok so I was not terribly constructive with this comment, so happy to elaborate. I'm pretty tired of this argument against vegan meat. The nutritional values of vegan meat…
> overly fatty or salty food Hard to understand one can promote cheese versus « vegan cheese » for nutritional reasons ! The vegan cheese may contain very few nutriments while the vast majority of our « real » cheeses are absolute disasters.
I don't disagree with what you're saying, but there can be nutritional benefits hiding in certain cheeses. Vitamin K2 can be tricky to find in plant sources - natto being the only one I can think of and it's tricky to find here in the UK. Roquefort has been hailed as the important part of the "French paradox" (French cardiovascular health tends to be much better than their high fat diet would suggest). I do like my fermented foods, with kimchi being my most frequently consumed.
Re: Animal meat and milk sales drop in Europe as vegan versions hit record highs
#80Vegans of HN: What do you supplement and why? Personally, I supplement VitaminD3 and Iron. And I make sure to eat salad, carrots and avocado every day. I came up with this regime after getting my blood work done and after exactly tracking all my nutritional values for a while and comparing those to the suggested amounts. I also have a long running project in the "statistics of one" space, where I track a lot of treat…
None, but I'm only vegetarian. I get nearly all required B12 from dairy and eggs. For some reason I get >500% the daily suggested amount of iron. I'm pretty low on Vitamin D (~20%), I figured the worst case scenario is I get some mild depression during winter so no supplements either.