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PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

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Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#101

Post by X-Istence »

pfortuny wrote: post #62
dos1 wrote: post #27

One of the reasons I've taken an interest in this whole fiasco is that I occasionally make "colorful" jokes. Not dissimilar from the two guys at PyCon. I make every attempt to keep these jokes private between my friends and I, but I'm sure others have heard me make them. Some people might find them funny, others may be offended. It scares me to think that making an offhand penis joke could result in being publicly ou…

When you are a geek and attend a conference, you are certainly going to tweet everything relevant about it. Well, Adria Richards decided that silly joke was worth tweeting. I am sad for the person evicted from his job, but then again: f you do not know your environment, you should not work in it. And tweeter is as strong as it gets. It is hard, but these are real life jobs and real life conferences and real life educ…

Try the public wifi at DefCon... and even then the wall of sheep will be nice enough to blank out most of your password for your safety.

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#102

Post by [deleted] »

jasonlotito wrote: post #83
dos1 wrote: post #27

One of the reasons I've taken an interest in this whole fiasco is that I occasionally make "colorful" jokes. Not dissimilar from the two guys at PyCon. I make every attempt to keep these jokes private between my friends and I, but I'm sure others have heard me make them. Some people might find them funny, others may be offended. It scares me to think that making an offhand penis joke could result in being publicly ou…

> Public shaming was not the right way to handle the situation. I find it odd then that the mob went after Adria, doing exactly what they are calling her out for doing, and publicly shaming her. Saying that she started it, or that two wrongs make a right, or any like that is only highlighting the hypocrisy.

[deleted]

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#103

Post by niggler »

CodeMage wrote: post #97
niggler wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"She overreacted as did the man's employer, and she has not shown any remorse." The problem is that people are attributing to her certain actions that she was not involved in. She didn't fire the guy; the employer did, based on his interpretation of the actions. If calling attention to potential misogyny results in a witch-hunt or in victim-blaming, the underlying problems won't be addressed. lizzard ( https://news.y…

The problem is that people are attributing to her certain actions that she was not involved in. She didn't fire the guy; the employer did, based on his interpretation of the actions. I am continually perplexed to see this argument. Two guys made inappropriate jokes in a public place and the same people who agree that "we didn't mean any harm" is not a valid defense for them offer a "she didn't mean any harm" as a def…

the same people who agree that "we didn't mean any harm" is not a valid defense for them offer a "she didn't mean any harm" as a defense for Adria's decision to publicly broadcast her complaint.

You misinterpret the reaction. I'm not suggesting that the guys meant any harm. It's in their right to make the joke, and it's in her right to respond, and anyone telling you that the guys meant harm but she didn't is applying a double standard.

"escalation that resulted in one of the guys getting fired."

If this were escalated but didn't result in one of the guys getting fired, we wouldn't have this conversation.

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#105

Post by freehunter »

imsofuture wrote: post #44
dos1 wrote: post #27

One of the reasons I've taken an interest in this whole fiasco is that I occasionally make "colorful" jokes. Not dissimilar from the two guys at PyCon. I make every attempt to keep these jokes private between my friends and I, but I'm sure others have heard me make them. Some people might find them funny, others may be offended. It scares me to think that making an offhand penis joke could result in being publicly ou…

What's amazing to me is the cognitive dissonance required to make the leap from Adria publicly outing someone (questionable, but not egregious given you know, the public venue) making an off-color joke to 'she got these people fired'. Their boss finding out what they said got them fired. Because what they said wasn't appropriate in the opinion of their employer. Period. Full stop.

She probably didn't want to get them fired. But it's hard to argue that she didn't want to cause them real damage, at the very least to their reputation. And it should be plainly obvious to someone with a media presence that anything negative they say about someone will ripple well beyond that person's own realm of control.

Everyone says things in private they wouldn't want their employer to hear. People curse outside of work. People drink and smoke. People break the law. They don't get fired for it because there's no one taking pictures of it and blasting it across the Internet. What we have here is irresponsible disclosure. You might not be able to forecast the full effect of such an action, but you have to know it's not going to be good for anyone involved.

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#106

Post by niggler »

freehunter wrote: post #54
niggler wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"She overreacted as did the man's employer, and she has not shown any remorse." The problem is that people are attributing to her certain actions that she was not involved in. She didn't fire the guy; the employer did, based on his interpretation of the actions. If calling attention to potential misogyny results in a witch-hunt or in victim-blaming, the underlying problems won't be addressed. lizzard ( https://news.y…

>If calling attention to potential misogyny results in a witch-hunt or in victim-blaming, the underlying problems won't be addressed. What misogyny? From what I understand, they made a joke about the word dongle in a gender-specific way. Does a play on words about your gender's anatomy really equal misogyny? Maybe some people need to learn what misogyny actually means.

I wrote potential because, although I see it as a joke between two people, I can see how others could be offended.

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#107

Post by malachismith »

The comment thread here is incredibly sad and depressing and perfectly illustrates how deeply misogyny is threaded through this community and industry.

You might want to go and find a female friend and have them read what you wrote. I think their responses might be enlightening.

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#108

Post by X-Istence »

imsofuture wrote: post #56
OoTheNigerian wrote: post #26

After reading all sides of the story, I see why there is so much anger towards Adria. However, it is unacceptable for her or SendGrid to be attacked digitally. Adria did an arguably right thing in a wrong way at the wrong time. 1. Assuming the way she said it happened is correct, the guys behind her made a sexual (forking/fucking; Dongle/Penis) not sexist joke. If it were even to be seen as sexist, it was towards men…

1) You don't get to tell someone what is offensive to them. 2) Totally agree, it was not a wise choice. 3) You don't get to tell someone what is offensive to them. 4) You don't get to tell someone what is offensive to them. 5) You don't get to tell someone what is offensive to them. 6) It's true, not all the best choices were made.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b48_1305790944

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#109

Post by pimentel »

aviraldg wrote: post #90
pimentel wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe a viral picture of a misogynist with the company tshirt would be motivational enough for the company to fire him (maybe summed to other things in him the company didn't like, who knows). Is he really a misogynist jerk? Does not matter: the picture was published to twitter with that message implied. EDIT: I'm not saying he's a misogynist, in fact I think otherwise. What I'm saying is if she implies he is with…

misogynist (mĭ-sŏjˈə-nĭst) n. One who hates women. Please explain how that applies to someone making a joke about "forking and dongles"

Read my comment again: it's not about what he is or what he's done, but what the picture (and her explaining in her blog or HN) made it seem. Of course it's not sexist, let alone misogynist.
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