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PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

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Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#81

Post by drharris »

imsofuture wrote: post #56
OoTheNigerian wrote: post #26

After reading all sides of the story, I see why there is so much anger towards Adria. However, it is unacceptable for her or SendGrid to be attacked digitally. Adria did an arguably right thing in a wrong way at the wrong time. 1. Assuming the way she said it happened is correct, the guys behind her made a sexual (forking/fucking; Dongle/Penis) not sexist joke. If it were even to be seen as sexist, it was towards men…

1) You don't get to tell someone what is offensive to them. 2) Totally agree, it was not a wise choice. 3) You don't get to tell someone what is offensive to them. 4) You don't get to tell someone what is offensive to them. 5) You don't get to tell someone what is offensive to them. 6) It's true, not all the best choices were made.

You seem to believe that offense is subjective to the individual. Should we then be responsible for everything we do that offends others? What level of recourse should they have for being offended? If we think that punitive action is appropriate given an offense, how do we determine what a legitimate offense is, versus a non-legitimate offense?

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#82

Post by aviraldg »

dos1 wrote: post #27

One of the reasons I've taken an interest in this whole fiasco is that I occasionally make "colorful" jokes. Not dissimilar from the two guys at PyCon. I make every attempt to keep these jokes private between my friends and I, but I'm sure others have heard me make them. Some people might find them funny, others may be offended. It scares me to think that making an offhand penis joke could result in being publicly ou…

Sorry - I hate to be a grammar nazi, but this is something I feel more people should know about: "wraith" means "ghost" whereas "wrath" means "anger."

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#83

Post by jasonlotito »

dos1 wrote: post #27

One of the reasons I've taken an interest in this whole fiasco is that I occasionally make "colorful" jokes. Not dissimilar from the two guys at PyCon. I make every attempt to keep these jokes private between my friends and I, but I'm sure others have heard me make them. Some people might find them funny, others may be offended. It scares me to think that making an offhand penis joke could result in being publicly ou…

> Public shaming was not the right way to handle the situation.

I find it odd then that the mob went after Adria, doing exactly what they are calling her out for doing, and publicly shaming her.

Saying that she started it, or that two wrongs make a right, or any like that is only highlighting the hypocrisy.

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#85

Post by cynicalkane »

imsofuture wrote: post #44
dos1 wrote: post #27

One of the reasons I've taken an interest in this whole fiasco is that I occasionally make "colorful" jokes. Not dissimilar from the two guys at PyCon. I make every attempt to keep these jokes private between my friends and I, but I'm sure others have heard me make them. Some people might find them funny, others may be offended. It scares me to think that making an offhand penis joke could result in being publicly ou…

What's amazing to me is the cognitive dissonance required to make the leap from Adria publicly outing someone (questionable, but not egregious given you know, the public venue) making an off-color joke to 'she got these people fired'. Their boss finding out what they said got them fired. Because what they said wasn't appropriate in the opinion of their employer. Period. Full stop.

We live in a politically correct world, and employers will do the wrong thing in order to save face because it's more expedient. It's hard to both try to help run a business and simultaneously wage war over social discourse.

The pattern is that firms will react, and overreact, to what they perceive as a scandal involving hot-button issues. The firing was a mistake but maybe the people involved were afraid of what might happen if they didn't do it. Or maybe they were acting on the same social outrage that Adria was acting on.

The point is there's a whole social anti-pattern behind the firing and it's incorrect to pin it on any one actor to the exclusion of others.

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#86

Post by pfortuny »

Sumaso wrote: post #60
imsofuture wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's amazing to me is the cognitive dissonance required to make the leap from Adria publicly outing someone (questionable, but not egregious given you know, the public venue) making an off-color joke to 'she got these people fired'. Their boss finding out what they said got them fired. Because what they said wasn't appropriate in the opinion of their employer. Period. Full stop.

It was her public outing that caused this situation in the first place! Also, do you think if there wasn't as much drama going around that these men still would have been fired? There is much more to this situation then an employer finding out that one of their employees make a dongle joke at a conference, and decided that was grounds for them to be fired. It is much more likely that the employer doesn't want to be a…

No, sorry, the situation was started by someone doing something which is at least rude.

They robbed the butcher's cash. It is his fault for leaving it in the counter. Sorry: it was the robber's fault and the butcher's imprudence, nothing more.

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#87

Post by pyre »

frankblizzard wrote: post #58
dos1 wrote: post #27

One of the reasons I've taken an interest in this whole fiasco is that I occasionally make "colorful" jokes. Not dissimilar from the two guys at PyCon. I make every attempt to keep these jokes private between my friends and I, but I'm sure others have heard me make them. Some people might find them funny, others may be offended. It scares me to think that making an offhand penis joke could result in being publicly ou…

Most of the people offended / affected by that are angry because the poor guy got fired over this. I think it was wrong to do this tweet, but she wasn't the one to get him fired. The employer should have the courage and stand behind his employees instead of firing him over appearantly nothing.

It was an overreaction, but 'Women in Tech' is a hot-button issue. The ultra-conservative approach is to distance yourself from everything that could be construed as promoting a "boys' club" in tech.

Disclaimer: I'm not supporting one side vs. the other here. I bear no grudge against her, but feel that she made a mistake in the way that she handled this.

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#88

Post by kevincrane »

CodeMage wrote: post #76
dos1 wrote: post #27

One of the reasons I've taken an interest in this whole fiasco is that I occasionally make "colorful" jokes. Not dissimilar from the two guys at PyCon. I make every attempt to keep these jokes private between my friends and I, but I'm sure others have heard me make them. Some people might find them funny, others may be offended. It scares me to think that making an offhand penis joke could result in being publicly ou…

I believe she's being a hypocrite by taking offense one day, and making her own penis joke on Twitter the next. I've seen that argument tossed about. There's a difference between reading someone's Twitter stream and hearing someone's joke while sitting in the audience at a convention. The former is reading content from someone you chose to follow, the latter is the equivalent of having people talk behind you in a mov…

I don't know, I felt pretty blind-sided when someone linked to that Twitter post here on HN and I was hit with a gasp penis joke. I was just on HN to be informed of the current events at PyCon and all of a sudden this lady I don't know is putting tweets about penises in a place I might accidentally read them.

/sarcasm

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#89

Post by gcb0 »

danso wrote: post #6

> Note: Public shaming can be counter-productive to building a strong community. PyCon does not condone nor participate in such actions out of respect I think the "out of respect" is unnecessary and somewhat nonsensical. Out of respect for whom? I think it's fine to just say that PyCon, like any reasonable organization, doesn't participate or condone in such public shaming, period...because the reasons to not engage…

True. It's mambo jambo just to make a point that they've dealt with the issue.

You know what would be better for the conference? A no pictures policy like defcon.

That way,people would not be able to violate others privacy for their own agendas.

Re: PyCon Code of Conduct changed to avoid public shaming

#90

Post by aviraldg »

pimentel wrote: post #66
imsofuture wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's amazing to me is the cognitive dissonance required to make the leap from Adria publicly outing someone (questionable, but not egregious given you know, the public venue) making an off-color joke to 'she got these people fired'. Their boss finding out what they said got them fired. Because what they said wasn't appropriate in the opinion of their employer. Period. Full stop.

Or maybe a viral picture of a misogynist with the company tshirt would be motivational enough for the company to fire him (maybe summed to other things in him the company didn't like, who knows). Is he really a misogynist jerk? Does not matter: the picture was published to twitter with that message implied. EDIT: I'm not saying he's a misogynist, in fact I think otherwise. What I'm saying is if she implies he is with…

misogynist (mĭ-sŏjˈə-nĭst) n. One who hates women.

Please explain how that applies to someone making a joke about "forking and dongles"

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