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Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

nature.com

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Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#101

Post by Godel_unicode »

sigmaprimus wrote: post #92
adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very TLDR response to this is that MRNA is temporary and not self-replicating. Within a few hours of being administered, all the MRNA in the vaccine has been broken down by the body into amino acids. MRNA can't mutate because it doesn't replicate. It just produces proteins.

Thank You, that is what I needed to hear and it sounds reasonable, what sort of proteins does it produce? Just the spiked ones or longer strands like DNA? Could You also offer up another TL;DR answer as to why the booster seems to present significantly more side effects? Thanks

DNA is not a protein, DNA is not a type of protein, DNA is not formed from protein. DNA is not formed using instructions from mRNA, nor is it modified by mRNA. DNA is made up of nucleotides, proteins are made up of amino acids. They are chemically different things.

As every medical expert has been saying for months now, the vaccine doesn't effect your DNA.

The immune response is what causes the side effects, and the immune response is stronger with the second dose (this follows intuitively from immunity being more robust after 2 doses).

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#102

Post by greg5green »

eyeinthepyramid wrote: post #40
vmception wrote: post #33

I literally saw the opposite headline about Pzifer versus a strain in India today The actual article said "modest antibody evading capabilities“ I hate that the internet has become this way

This article doesn't seem to address any of the strains originating in India, fwiw. My guess is that they haven't known of them long enough to understand their reaction in vaccinated people.

The popular media has done a huge disservice by naming this the "Indian double mutant." It's two changes that have been seen in other variants and have been studied already.

The "double mutation" is L452R and E484Q. L452R is the defining feature of the B.1.429 variant (California). E484Q has been seen in derivatives of B.1.429 and in bunches of other variants in the US. It has some antibody evasive properties, but not enough to render vaccines ineffective. Yes, the E484K mutation seen in B.1.351, P.1, and P.2 has been more studied, but E484Q has been studied too.

Double mutant makes it sound like it is something entirely novel that is going to murder us all.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#103

Post by Haemm0r »

garmaine wrote: post #79
Clewza313 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India is by and large not using Pfizer. Evidence to date points to AstraZeneca (which they are using) being quite effective in preventing serious illness.

So far ALL vaccines are effective against serious illness with all variants.

Is that true for astra zeneca vs. south african variant?

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#104

Post by chitowneats »

loxias wrote: post #88
dnautics wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I advocate getting vaccinated (I am myself) but if people don't want to put foreign substances into their bodies, we should respect their choices, especially since the long-term risk profile is unknown (we are pretty sure it's safe, but who can know?)

> we should respect their choices Honestly, why should I do that? I would if their choices only affected themselves. People have a right to control their own destiny. But their choices affect me, and, more importantly, those I care about. So no, I don't respect anyone's "choice" to be an unvaccinated asshole, increasing the chance that people I care about will die. I don't respect the "choice" to aide a foreign micro…

Let's recognize your comment for what it is: unhelpful internet toughguy-ism. You need to regain some perspective. Calling others "treasonous" for this pretty clearly violates HN community guidelines.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#105

Post by chitowneats »

bawolff wrote: post #99
chitowneats wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an emergency authorization vaccine. We haven't had the full trials. No one can honestly claim these are safe long term. In fact, they don't. The manufacturers do not assume any liability for you choosing to consume their experimental product. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-c...

That depends a bit on your country.

Assuming you live in the West, we are all taking the same few vaccines. The trials are not complete for any of the big 3. The specifics of the legality vary from country to country. It typically takes nearly a decade to approve a new vaccine.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#106

Post by loxias »

bawolff wrote: post #96
sigmaprimus wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>Putting aside the fact that not being vaccinated is a horrible selfish act that hastens the evolution of a more virulent strain and more death. Rhetoric like that is almost as bad as the conspiracies floating around. Brow beating someone with legitimate concerns is not right. Im social distancing, wearing a mask doing all the things necessary and successfully I might add to not aquire or transmit the virus. So ple…

> Im social distancing, wearing a mask doing all the things necessary Those things are emergency measures, that are important, but not anywhere near as effective as vaccines are. They stop things from rapidly spiraling out of control so instead they just slowly spiral. Its a holding action, one with a pretty high cost, not a solution. > that has been rushed through trials They've had the same amount of safety testing…

Thank you for being better at words than me.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#107

Post by simonCGN »

xeromal wrote: post #67
simonCGN wrote: post #65

It it a Biontech vaccine. Pfizer is only the manufacturer. After all, you also do not call the MacBook a Foxconn Laptop.

We're past that now. It's known as Pfizer in the official language of too many cities and countries.

No, we are not past that. Just because it is used wrongly it does not mean that it needs to stay that way.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#108

Post by takeda »

vmception wrote: post #33

I literally saw the opposite headline about Pzifer versus a strain in India today The actual article said "modest antibody evading capabilities“ I hate that the internet has become this way

The article that I saw today was contradicting itself. In one place it said that there are 3 mutations and that vaccine might not work on it, and in another place that it should.

My understanding is that at this point we don't know yet. The actual testing would probably require a vaccinated person to be exposed to that strain.

Chances are that vaccine is probably still fine.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#109

Post by greg5green »

sigmaprimus wrote: post #92
adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very TLDR response to this is that MRNA is temporary and not self-replicating. Within a few hours of being administered, all the MRNA in the vaccine has been broken down by the body into amino acids. MRNA can't mutate because it doesn't replicate. It just produces proteins.

Thank You, that is what I needed to hear and it sounds reasonable, what sort of proteins does it produce? Just the spiked ones or longer strands like DNA? Could You also offer up another TL;DR answer as to why the booster seems to present significantly more side effects? Thanks

> Could You also offer up another TL;DR answer as to why the booster seems to present significantly more side effects?

The first one, some of your cells get told by the mRNA/adenovirus vector (depending on if you had Moderna/Pfizer or J&J/Oxford) to make some 'rona spikes. Your immune system amped up a little bit and your cells feel bad for a bit because of having to spew out spike. Your immune system, which is a little amped up, sees all this and starts to formulate things to kill the spikes (antibodies) and starts to send out other immune cells that clamp down on the cells that are making the spikes.

The second shot? Your cells get the call from the mRNA/adenovirus vector and start spewing out spikes. Your immune system recently saw this so it _really_ starts spewing out more antibodies to get rid of the spikes and more of the other cells to get rid of the spike producers. It it is really ready for the fight and wants to make sure you're ready for the fight in the future too.

The negative side effects are your immune system causing parts of your body to do things it doesn't usually do (like raising your body temperature to help kill off cells that are making these "rogue" spikes).

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#110

Post by greg5green »

reedjosh wrote: post #55
vmception wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you already have an appointment the only debate should be whether you will need an additional third booster shot in the future if the strain in India breaks out and is different enough. The key thing you should notice about the COVID vaccine detractors is their inability to distinguish between vaccines and the wildly different technology between the different vaccines, alongside their inability acknowledge the geo…

> acknowledge the geopolitical hurdles Each of those vaccines come from a UN/WHO member country. Geo politically power is wielded by globalist financial elites. These elites generally believe the world is overpopulated. Bill himself is well known for his this belief. Bill as an example runs a charitable foundation that only ever seems to make money. These conspiracies are not constituted of a flat earth and aliens. T…

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