It it a Biontech vaccine. Pfizer is only the manufacturer. After all, you also do not call the MacBook a Foxconn Laptop.
The better analogy would be Foxconn.
Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants
81–90 of 324 posts
Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I have an appointment to get my first jab in 43 hours from now and I am bouncing back and forth between getting it and cancellation. Cancellation??!??! WTF? Why? You have a free, safe, live-saving vaccine being offered to you! Why would you not take it?? Putting aside the fact that not being vaccinated is a horrible selfish act that hastens the evolution of a more virulent strain and more death, don't you want to r…
> WTF? Why? You have a free, safe, live-saving vaccine being offered to you! Why would you not take it?? People have real distrust of the system that produced the vaccine and even distrust of the media that purports this disease is so deadly. I know from your perspective scepticism is hard to understand, but it's not that God tells me science is fake or anything so outlandish. I genuinely don't trust the corporations…
> People have real distrust of the system that produced the vaccine and even distrust of the media that purports this disease is so deadly.
WHY??? Why do they distrust the vaccine?? Anything? Any possible reason? It's probably the safest vaccine ever made. I. DON'T. GET. IT.
Do others not hear the ambulances? Do they not see the overflow from the hospitals? Are the dead bodies some sort of elaborate deep fake?? Has the whole world gone mad???
Brother, I love skepticism. It's healthy. It's *good*. I don't blindly trust corporations or the government, as far as I'm concerned the former only wants profit and the latter only wants power.
But that's got nothing to do with it, from my perspective.
When your house is on fire you don't debate the motivations of the fire department. You put out the fire first, and THEN have time for dithering and analysis.
Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I have an appointment to get my first jab in 43 hours from now and I am bouncing back and forth between getting it and cancellation. Cancellation??!??! WTF? Why? You have a free, safe, live-saving vaccine being offered to you! Why would you not take it?? Putting aside the fact that not being vaccinated is a horrible selfish act that hastens the evolution of a more virulent strain and more death, don't you want to r…
> WTF? Why? You have a free, safe, live-saving vaccine being offered to you! Why would you not take it?? People have real distrust of the system that produced the vaccine and even distrust of the media that purports this disease is so deadly. I know from your perspective scepticism is hard to understand, but it's not that God tells me science is fake or anything so outlandish. I genuinely don't trust the corporations…
Go to your local hospital and see for yourself how deadly the disease is.
Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you already have an appointment the only debate should be whether you will need an additional third booster shot in the future if the strain in India breaks out and is different enough. The key thing you should notice about the COVID vaccine detractors is their inability to distinguish between vaccines and the wildly different technology between the different vaccines, alongside their inability acknowledge the geo…
I live in Canada so it is age based. I'm guessing it will be either Pfizer or Moderna both of which are mRNA which from my understanding is a form of gene therapy. My main concern at the moment is: Just as the virus can mutate during it's replicatative phase and produce variants why can't the spiked protien during it's production or the cells producing it mutate also? If these production cells can mutate or the spike…
> both of which are mRNA which from my understanding is a form of gene therapy.
That's incorrect, in the sense mRNA does not alter your genetic material.
> why can't the spiked protien during it's production or the cells producing it mutate also?
They could, but they only exist for a short while and don't create new things. When the virus mutates, it can pass the mutation on to the new "child" viruses. Mutations that make things worse (for us) are super rare, so it only matters if there is also some method to preserve the mutation, select the ones useful to the virus, and make more of them. With the vaccine, it only acts for a short time and cannot "spread", so any mutation is immediately lost.
> If these production cells can mutate or the spiked protiens themselves mutate is it reasonable to assume an autoimmune diseases may result as the cells or protiens accumulate in my organs, limphnodes, fat cells or other areas?
Probably not. There is no method for the mutation to become dominant and take over, so you would have a single mutated cell which isnt enough to affect anything. Ignoring that, the vaccine acts for a short time, so stuff wouldn't generally accumulate because of the short time frame where the vaccine is causing spiked proteins to be created. After the vaccine is used up in your body, no more spiked proteins are created.
Note: I am not a doctor, my understanding may be flawed.
Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
> [1] A glaring counterexample to your hypothesis is Brazil (Manuas) where prior infections (as high as 60%) didn't stop the P1 variant from ripping through. The prior infection estimates for Manaus were simply wrong . They were based on a paper that "adjusted" the observed seroprevalence rates upward by a factor of ~3x. The parsimonious conclusion is that these corrections were too aggressive and ended up over-estim…
Conversely, we can make the same argument in the opposite direction with the example of Seychelles, which in spite of the highest vaccination level in the world, is still seeing significant growth in cases: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-56992121 Apparently they're using 40% Astra Zeneca, 60% Sinopharm; hopefully the issue is simply the latter being ineffective. But as all the success stories with vaccination…
> A third of the active cases involved people who had had two vaccine doses, the country's news agency said.
> The rest had either had a single dose or were unvaccinated.
So ~66% of the cases were from partially or unvaccinated people.
Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree, unfortunately there have been so many half truths and misleading articles both online and on legacy media that I find myself not knowing what or who to trust anymore. I have an appointment to get my first jab in 43 hours from now and I am bouncing back and forth between getting it and cancelation. Five years ago I would not be having these doubts but it seems like everyone has alterior motives. I wish the so…
> I have an appointment to get my first jab in 43 hours from now and I am bouncing back and forth between getting it and cancellation. Cancellation??!??! WTF? Why? You have a free, safe, live-saving vaccine being offered to you! Why would you not take it?? Putting aside the fact that not being vaccinated is a horrible selfish act that hastens the evolution of a more virulent strain and more death, don't you want to r…
It is an emergency authorization vaccine. We haven't had the full trials. No one can honestly claim these are safe long term. In fact, they don't. The manufacturers do not assume any liability for you choosing to consume their experimental product.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-c...
Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants
#87It it a Biontech vaccine. Pfizer is only the manufacturer. After all, you also do not call the MacBook a Foxconn Laptop.
"Only the manufacturer"?
You mean the company that scaled up production to hundreds of millions of doses, ran clinical trials in dozens of countries for tens of thousands of patients, put together all the regulatory documentation for dozens of countries, including negotiations with regulators, then developed a worldwide logistics system to get the vaccine where it's needed. And did all that with few stumbles in less than a year.
So yeah, they are "just the manufacturer".
Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I have an appointment to get my first jab in 43 hours from now and I am bouncing back and forth between getting it and cancelation. Sorry, what is the downside to getting the vaccine in your mind?
I advocate getting vaccinated (I am myself) but if people don't want to put foreign substances into their bodies, we should respect their choices, especially since the long-term risk profile is unknown (we are pretty sure it's safe, but who can know?)
> we should respect their choices
Honestly, why should I do that?
I would if their choices only affected themselves. People have a right to control their own destiny. But their choices affect me, and, more importantly, those I care about. So no, I don't respect anyone's "choice" to be an unvaccinated asshole, increasing the chance that people I care about will die. I don't respect the "choice" to aide a foreign microbe in evolving in its ability to hurt me and our species.
Why are we thinking of this as some sort of delicate "choice" we need to respect, instead of recognizing it for what it is? Treason.
Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's also the benefit that with the mRNA vaccines (and the adenovirus vaccines as well), your body is developing antibodies specifically for the spike protein, which is highly conserved. Your body's immune response to actual covid may, just by chance, focus on a less strongly conserved target.
I was under the impression that it's the other way around; spike protein is not conserved between variants [1]: https://theconversation.com/new-coronavirus-variant-what-is-...
If you track each and every mutation as a variant, then here are thousands of them. Changes in the spike protein have the largest effect though, so we track those specifically, and clusters of changes to the spike protein are what get official designation as variants. Because that’s what we care about.
Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants
#90It it a Biontech vaccine. Pfizer is only the manufacturer. After all, you also do not call the MacBook a Foxconn Laptop.
Pfizer (and Fosun) is also the distributor, ran the trials, and handled much of the public/regulator/media facing communications. As such, the Pfizer branding is not surprising.
Production is a multi-step process involving both Pfizer and BioNTech.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfizer%E2%80%93BioNTech_COVID-...