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Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

nature.com

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Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#61

Post by lamontcg »

vmception wrote: post #33

I literally saw the opposite headline about Pzifer versus a strain in India today The actual article said "modest antibody evading capabilities“ I hate that the internet has become this way

"modest antibody evading capabilities“

This generally means that a pseudovirus built with the mutated spike escapes some monoclonal antibodies and has reduced neutralization titers against convalescent sera, which is fairly normal and doesn't add up to an escape mutation.

When it mutates enough to form an actual escape mutation that will probably come at a cost to the virus for transmissibility/virulence/viral load because it will need to escape at ~20 different epitopes. And still cross reactive T-cells will likely identify the new strain enough and active your immune system to contain it so that it acts more like a common cold than COVID-19.

Booster shots are probably still not a bad idea though, the more it gets boxed in by our immune systems, the more it'll have to make those costly evolutionary choices and become less virulent.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#62

Post by vmception »

reedjosh wrote: post #55
vmception wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you already have an appointment the only debate should be whether you will need an additional third booster shot in the future if the strain in India breaks out and is different enough. The key thing you should notice about the COVID vaccine detractors is their inability to distinguish between vaccines and the wildly different technology between the different vaccines, alongside their inability acknowledge the geo…

> acknowledge the geopolitical hurdles Each of those vaccines come from a UN/WHO member country. Geo politically power is wielded by globalist financial elites. These elites generally believe the world is overpopulated. Bill himself is well known for his this belief. Bill as an example runs a charitable foundation that only ever seems to make money. These conspiracies are not constituted of a flat earth and aliens. T…

Charitable foundations are designed to make money in perpetuity, otherwise their mission is not possible to accomplish. In the US they have to donate 5% of net assets a year and that is practically their only requirement, based on the idea that a diversified portfolio in the broad market increases in value slightly more than 5%. That is not a strong argument to bolster your skepticism.

If your idea is based on the existence of psychopathic financiers controlling organizations that every country on the planet is part of, and every vaccine production as well in those countries which use completely different technology, then you have left no oxygen in your mind for disproving anything. You've now exempted China from any scrutiny, in exchange for psychopathic financiers that would have much difficulty in collaborating with the party and maintaining status with them. You've replaced that with an insidious plot that makes zero sense and at the best requires opportunists to simply seize onto the reality. But that makes zero sense because the mRNA vaccines were sequenced within a week of getting samples in January 2020 because the technology is simply impressive and is the lifetime work of the Hungarian researcher. Ah, so many problems with this idea.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#63

Post by sigmaprimus »

reedjosh wrote: post #55
vmception wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you already have an appointment the only debate should be whether you will need an additional third booster shot in the future if the strain in India breaks out and is different enough. The key thing you should notice about the COVID vaccine detractors is their inability to distinguish between vaccines and the wildly different technology between the different vaccines, alongside their inability acknowledge the geo…

> acknowledge the geopolitical hurdles Each of those vaccines come from a UN/WHO member country. Geo politically power is wielded by globalist financial elites. These elites generally believe the world is overpopulated. Bill himself is well known for his this belief. Bill as an example runs a charitable foundation that only ever seems to make money. These conspiracies are not constituted of a flat earth and aliens. T…

I have a hard time buying into the over population argument, especially in the west. Most western nations have declining populations and although consumption is much higher there is still such a need for continued population growth in western nations that immigration is used to ensure there are enough younger workers to support the wealthier aging populations.

Now you want to talk conspiracies to conceal or coverup how the virus came to be, I'm all for that but I don't think billionaires want to kill off all their neighbors just so they can have the earth all to themselves. They enjoy the power and control over people and policy too much for that.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#64

Post by fsh »

drenvuk wrote: post #41

This does not mention the variant in India: B. 1.617. Excuse my language but fuck the author and this article. They went out of their way to list multiple other variant names but left the word "India" and "B. 1.617" out entirely while proclaiming "Pfizer COVID vaccine protects against worrying coronavirus variants". Is there another strain that's more worrying right now or even on the day that this article was publis…

Scientist seem to be a lot more worried about B.1.351 than B.1.617. Of course newspapers will always hype up the latest thing that was discovered.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#66

Post by ianlevesque »

sigmaprimus wrote: post #56
vmception wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you already have an appointment the only debate should be whether you will need an additional third booster shot in the future if the strain in India breaks out and is different enough. The key thing you should notice about the COVID vaccine detractors is their inability to distinguish between vaccines and the wildly different technology between the different vaccines, alongside their inability acknowledge the geo…

I live in Canada so it is age based. I'm guessing it will be either Pfizer or Moderna both of which are mRNA which from my understanding is a form of gene therapy. My main concern at the moment is: Just as the virus can mutate during it's replicatative phase and produce variants why can't the spiked protien during it's production or the cells producing it mutate also? If these production cells can mutate or the spike…

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different...

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#68

Post by reedjosh »

loxias wrote: post #57
sigmaprimus wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, unfortunately there have been so many half truths and misleading articles both online and on legacy media that I find myself not knowing what or who to trust anymore. I have an appointment to get my first jab in 43 hours from now and I am bouncing back and forth between getting it and cancelation. Five years ago I would not be having these doubts but it seems like everyone has alterior motives. I wish the so…

> I have an appointment to get my first jab in 43 hours from now and I am bouncing back and forth between getting it and cancellation. Cancellation??!??! WTF? Why? You have a free, safe, live-saving vaccine being offered to you! Why would you not take it?? Putting aside the fact that not being vaccinated is a horrible selfish act that hastens the evolution of a more virulent strain and more death, don't you want to r…

> WTF? Why? You have a free, safe, live-saving vaccine being offered to you! Why would you not take it??

People have real distrust of the system that produced the vaccine and even distrust of the media that purports this disease is so deadly.

I know from your perspective scepticism is hard to understand, but it's not that God tells me science is fake or anything so outlandish. I genuinely don't trust the corporations and government selling me the story of the disease and now the vaccine, and it should be allowed that people question these institutions.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#69

Post by flobosg »

rantwasp wrote: post #54
flobosg wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a false assumption as they have different mRNA instructions Depending on what you mean by “mRNA instructions” that might not be the case. Both vaccine mRNAs encode exactly the same variant of the spike protein.

yes, but no. while it’s technically the same protein, the way it was optimized differs (not by much but it’s different). the vaccine itself has the instructions to produce something that resembles the spike protein (to which your immune system goes in overdrive and generates antibodies)

> while it’s technically the same protein

Not technically, it’s actually the same protein/polypeptide sequence in both cases, 100% identical, including the proline mutations that stabilize the prefusion conformation. You can check that easily by translating and aligning in silico both coding RNA sequences.

> the way it was optimized differs (not by much but it’s different)

I’m assuming that you’re referring to the codon optimization step that the RNA sequences underwent. While both coding sequences were optimized differently, this has no effect on the final protein product.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#70

Post by tialaramex »

cmckn wrote: post #48
selcuka wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it the spike protein that is usually different between these variants? In that case antibodies that target a different part should even be more effective.

The vaccines target specific (and multiple) regions of the spike protein, so a given mutation of the protein is not likely to make a vaccine null and void (hence the current success of the vaccines against variants). A "natural" COVID infection could lead to similar protection, or less; but it's not likely that a natural infection gives you some kind of AAA protection. Being infected can also hurt you, after all. The…

It's not quite no downside. It may be inconvenient (especially if you live in a country where you can't necessarily get time off work to seek medical treatment) and you're quite likely to have a sore arm. Some people experience fever, headaches, or other annoying symptoms for a day or even longer. I had a powerful craving for a kebab, at like 0400 when all the kebab shops are closed, maybe a coincidence, but maybe not. If you told me I can get a free Coke, but I have to take an hour off work and then my arm will be sore for two days, I think I'll pass on your "free" Coke.

Now, of course the excellent chance of becoming immune to a respiratory infection that's killing loads of people is a much better offer than a Coke. So I agree people should take up this offer, get yourself vaccinated - but we shouldn't claim "literally no downside".

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