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Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

nature.com

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Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#71

Post by rossriley »

vmception wrote: post #33

I literally saw the opposite headline about Pzifer versus a strain in India today The actual article said "modest antibody evading capabilities“ I hate that the internet has become this way

I can't answer to the specific source you saw but you are most likely misinterpreting the concepts at play.

When you see articles about antibody evading or antibody escape the research is not dealing in absolutes. It's perfectly possible for there be some antibody escape but the overall immune response is perfectly adequate to quickly deal with an infection.

With the variants of concern so far we've seen a similar pattern, sometimes there can be a reduction in efficacy of the vaccines (remember all efficacy endpoints are measured against preventing symptomatic disease), but at the same time they mostly provide a very high protection against severe disease and hospitalization.

So the two headlines are both perfectly correct, the current variants of concern have the ability to demonstrate antibody escape at a slightly higher rate than the original variant, but the current vaccines still protect people against sever disease.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#72

Post by vmception »

ramraj07 wrote: post #59
vmception wrote: post #33

I literally saw the opposite headline about Pzifer versus a strain in India today The actual article said "modest antibody evading capabilities“ I hate that the internet has become this way

Can you actually link to a source?

There was a WHO press-conference about a preprint, and more information is coming this week.

That is the totality of information.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/05/10/coronavirus...

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.04.442663v1

I don't have access to the FT article as it is paywalled, but some less meaningful sources have summarized it and use the "modest evading" phrase.

As I don't care for the conversation as I lost all energy going over this stuff last year when the same thing happened, a preprint is not peer reviewed and is necessary to become peer reviewed. Hundreds of thousands of people will die before that happens. Make your own decisions.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#73

Post by selcuka »

cmckn wrote: post #48
selcuka wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it the spike protein that is usually different between these variants? In that case antibodies that target a different part should even be more effective.

The vaccines target specific (and multiple) regions of the spike protein, so a given mutation of the protein is not likely to make a vaccine null and void (hence the current success of the vaccines against variants). A "natural" COVID infection could lead to similar protection, or less; but it's not likely that a natural infection gives you some kind of AAA protection. Being infected can also hurt you, after all. The…

So are mRNA vaccines are more effective than conventional (i.e. dead virus) vaccines and natural immunity because they target a smaller set of proteins, effectively telling the immune system exactly which protein to produce antibodies for?

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#74

Post by selcuka »

tialaramex wrote: post #70
cmckn wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccines target specific (and multiple) regions of the spike protein, so a given mutation of the protein is not likely to make a vaccine null and void (hence the current success of the vaccines against variants). A "natural" COVID infection could lead to similar protection, or less; but it's not likely that a natural infection gives you some kind of AAA protection. Being infected can also hurt you, after all. The…

It's not quite no downside. It may be inconvenient (especially if you live in a country where you can't necessarily get time off work to seek medical treatment) and you're quite likely to have a sore arm. Some people experience fever, headaches, or other annoying symptoms for a day or even longer. I had a powerful craving for a kebab, at like 0400 when all the kebab shops are closed, maybe a coincidence, but maybe no…

Not the OP, but to be fair the exact quote was:

> no downside to receiving the vaccine if you've already had COVID

So I assume that this means that there is no difference in potential unwanted effects between persons who have already had COVID and who have not.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#75

Post by lamontcg »

petertodd wrote: post #14
icedchai wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's one: https://www.contagionlive.com/view/immune-response-from-mrna...

The study itself says that the immune response to the vaccine is not as diverse as a natural infection. That's how the study tried to figure out who had been infected: "Natural exposure induces a dominant Ab response against the nucleocapsid protein (NP), but since NP is not in the vaccine, there is no vaccine induced response against it. In this way vaccinated people who had a prior natural exposure can be classifie…

High NAbs titers in the blood against spike will almost certainly be protective and even in the absence of sterilizing mucosal immunity will confine any infection to the upper respiratory tract.

I'm nowhere near as concerned about a variant infecting my upper respiratory tract as I am with being unvaccinated and having any of the variants attack my heart, kidneys, lungs and blood.

The use of spike was also not a mistake. Attempts to produce vaccines against NP for SARS-CoV-1 produced signs of ADE, so that is why everyone is using spike-only (other than the few inactivated virus vaccines).

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#76

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

sigmaprimus wrote: post #56
vmception wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you already have an appointment the only debate should be whether you will need an additional third booster shot in the future if the strain in India breaks out and is different enough. The key thing you should notice about the COVID vaccine detractors is their inability to distinguish between vaccines and the wildly different technology between the different vaccines, alongside their inability acknowledge the geo…

I live in Canada so it is age based. I'm guessing it will be either Pfizer or Moderna both of which are mRNA which from my understanding is a form of gene therapy. My main concern at the moment is: Just as the virus can mutate during it's replicatative phase and produce variants why can't the spiked protien during it's production or the cells producing it mutate also? If these production cells can mutate or the spike…

The very TLDR response to this is that MRNA is temporary and not self-replicating. Within a few hours of being administered, all the MRNA in the vaccine has been broken down by the body into amino acids. MRNA can't mutate because it doesn't replicate. It just produces proteins.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#77

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

dnautics wrote: post #60
cycrutchfield wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have an appointment to get my first jab in 43 hours from now and I am bouncing back and forth between getting it and cancelation. Sorry, what is the downside to getting the vaccine in your mind?

I advocate getting vaccinated (I am myself) but if people don't want to put foreign substances into their bodies, we should respect their choices, especially since the long-term risk profile is unknown (we are pretty sure it's safe, but who can know?)

We can. There have been hundreds of millions of doses administered and we are keeping track of the side effects.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#78

Post by flobosg »

fastball wrote: post #53
deanclatworthy wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a false assumption as they have different mRNA instructions. As you point out, wait until there is data and treat the vaccines independently.

The overall mRNA is different due to different signal peptides, untranslated regions (UTR), etc. But the mRNA sequence that encodes the spike protein is identical, and presumably that is what would give resistance to variants.

A nitpick: signal peptides are also the same.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#79

Post by garmaine »

Clewza313 wrote: post #49
eyeinthepyramid wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article doesn't seem to address any of the strains originating in India, fwiw. My guess is that they haven't known of them long enough to understand their reaction in vaccinated people.

India is by and large not using Pfizer. Evidence to date points to AstraZeneca (which they are using) being quite effective in preventing serious illness.

So far ALL vaccines are effective against serious illness with all variants.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#80

Post by sigmaprimus »

loxias wrote: post #57
sigmaprimus wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, unfortunately there have been so many half truths and misleading articles both online and on legacy media that I find myself not knowing what or who to trust anymore. I have an appointment to get my first jab in 43 hours from now and I am bouncing back and forth between getting it and cancelation. Five years ago I would not be having these doubts but it seems like everyone has alterior motives. I wish the so…

> I have an appointment to get my first jab in 43 hours from now and I am bouncing back and forth between getting it and cancellation. Cancellation??!??! WTF? Why? You have a free, safe, live-saving vaccine being offered to you! Why would you not take it?? Putting aside the fact that not being vaccinated is a horrible selfish act that hastens the evolution of a more virulent strain and more death, don't you want to r…

>>>Putting aside the fact that not being vaccinated is a horrible selfish act that hastens the evolution of a more virulent strain and more death.

Rhetoric like that is almost as bad as the conspiracies floating around. Brow beating someone with legitimate concerns is not right.

Im social distancing, wearing a mask doing all the things necessary and successfully I might add to not aquire or transmit the virus. So please dont call me horrible and selfish for contemplating getting an vaccine that has been rushed through trials with no long term data and worse hearing the powers that be, say "It doesnt matter which one you get just get the first one You are offered", how is that a reasonable statement ever?

If You want to know more in depth what my concern is, I wrote it in another comment. Im going to unplug now as my head is spinning and I need to "relax a bit" obviously.

ThankYou everyone for having this frank disussion and not canceling or censoring it(even though it has cost me quite a bit of karma it has given me more perspective and I appreciate that)

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