281–290 of 359 posts
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> I simply wish to point out the obvious - these prejudice are a product of patriarchy. Since no one can explain what "patriarchy" even is in a concrete way, this is very far from obvious.
You're joking, right? :D
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That's actually not true. Compared to men, women: * Live longer * Are less likely to kill themselves * Are less likely to be the victim of violence * Are better protected under the law if they are victimized * Are less likely to be homeless (and receive more support if they are) * Receive shorter sentences for the same crimes * Are less likely to be victims of police brutality (the disparity between men and women is…
> Everything else being equal, men face far greater issues than their female peers. This sentiment is part of the problem in my opinion. How shitty you have it isn't a damn competition. I think we should be working to remove these systemic issues for everyone, rather than keeping score on who has had the more challenging game of life. Edit: I was thinking about your comment. You bring up a legitimate list of concerns…
It is a trend I notice in online discussions. In the gender competitions, it seems the one who wins is reprimanded more than the one who started it.
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I've deleted this comment based on replies, I may have had wrong information : )
You can try, but every study I've seen has found that men are favored in contested custody proceedings. Its true that women are more likely to end up with custody, but that appears to because they are vastly more likely to seek custody.
Do they? Every study I have seen has never accounted for the differences in the average case where the man challenges vs. the average case where they do not. Perhaps they are discriminated against to the point that they only seek to challenge the status quo when they have a very good case, which is why they win more often when they do challenge.
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"In every country in the world..." Obviously including extreme male centered societies like Iran and Saudi Arabia "middle-aged men are most at risk" So obviously not a recent attack on male children. Indeed the problem is greatest among people who are older then the average poster to this thread let alone their often hypothetical children. There is obviously a serious problem here, apparently related to age, and inst…
How do you know the average age of the people in this thread? From the linked article - "In 2013, if you were a man between the ages of 20 and 49 who’d died, the most likely cause was not assault nor car crash nor drug abuse nor heart attack, but a decision that you didn’t wish to live any more". Dismissing the people who try to talk about these issues and branding everyone 'MRAs' seems like an attempt to kill any di…
But as important as this issue is, some of the most upvoted posts include: "TV...only show men as drunken idiots", "We're turning into a bunch of sissy, touchy feely men", "This is a product of the wrong people continuously trying to redefine masculinity", "The issue has ... everything to do with the current crop of overly loud feminists"
So yes, any discussion was annihilated by MRAs griping about TV shows, feminists and "good ol' fashioned values" because we can safely say none of this is why a 50 year old or Iraq vet kill themselves. You have a screwed up economy, a society that throws away anyone over 45 and utterly inadequate social protections of any sort, even to vets, because that's "socialist". And some of the people most damaged by it have had their justifiable anger mindless redirected at women and TV.
Actually the only thing accomplished here was to make hn just a little more of laughable to recruitment managers.
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Wait, what are we even talking about here any more - are you saying men contemplate suicide because feminists make them feel bad about themselves? Because of sitcom tropes? Anyway, feminists fight for women. They are mostly women. They had a serious bunch of wrongs to right, more than just some unfavorable sitcom tropes. If they were not, during this fight, sufficiently sensitized to the problems of men, can you real…
Anyway, feminists fight for women. And this is the problem I have with feminists. We should be fighting for each other, not against each other. We are all on this planet together and we all deserve equal rights and opportunities. The idea that we achieve this by having women fight for women's rights and men fight for men's rights is absurd. It might have been inevitable to begin with, but we're not living in the 60s…
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> If some women and feminists are blind to the problems of men, is that really a surprise? Yes, honestly, though perhaps it shouldn't. The point of feminism was to bring equality to the sexes. In places where it has been successful, to see it continue to push forward as a way of achieving victories for women causes spite and backlash. I have low hopes for a real men's version of feminism to form, for exactly the reas…
I agree with a lot of what you say. But waiting for someone else to fight your fight never worked for anybody. It's just the way it is, people have a hard time putting themselves in others' shoes, and everyone naturally tends to place greater emphasis on their own problems. And then there's the fact that problems women face still exist. But for me, the problem with MRAs is not that they are "unmanly". They remind me…
I simply do not see this happening. Before people ever do this, they will attempt to accomplish their goals by easier, more acceptable, less self-socially destroying means, like wrapping their complaints in traditional/religious roles or (likely reactionary) ideology. But I don't want to detract from this any longer. The point I was trying to make was far more succinctly put by marrs in anther reply to you.
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> As a society, we need to come to terms with masculinity. That means men need to be able to be masculine without being domineering and without being castigated. You're doing the exact same thing you're complaining about. This is a social problem towards men, it is not a mans problem they need to solve for themselves. The issue has nothing to do with masculinity and everything to do with the current crop of overly lo…
Every single feminist I know encourages me to open up, and supports me when I do. You need to know better feminists.
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I don't understand this. In most stories, arn't protagonists primarily male? Arn't they typically courageous, or intelligent, or unyielding, or strong, or determined? I don't understand.
It's a valid question, but most people I know (including my boys) identify far more with the guys on Big Bang Theory than Bruce Willis in Die Hard, and those guys are every negative archetype of maleness (sexist, unable to care for oneself, etc) wrapped up in a pseudo-intellectualized package. The one exception was Penny's boy friend, who filled "stupid jock".[1] What Bruce Willis brings to the table is this idealize…
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You could put a minimal amount of effort into charitable readings of the comments of others. Feminism has gone so far as to brand the men's rights movement a hate group, they've gone out of their way to characterize men's rights books as rape-apologizing hate speech, and in some cases[0][1] have actively shut down talks given from what is basically the MRA viewpoint. This is clearly coercion so I feel justified in sa…
That would have been one charitable reading :D Of course I understood you as if you were implying that I am forcing something. Thank you for the clarification! I cannot really speak for others, I represent no one but myself. I can only guess that, to some extent, such reaction from some feminists is simply defence. The MRA narrative is too focused on feminism, and has too much relativizing, "who's the greater victim"…
It's impossibile to stand up for masculinity as being a natural and good thing without butting heads with THE group who says masculinity is an overvalued social construct that needs to be destroyed.
On victimhood, it's completely childish for a movement to spend 50 years talking about how victimized its members are and the moment somebody else starts using the same tactic it's "let's not talk about victimhood, it's sooo stupid!" It's a classic "learned it from watching you" scenario.
On who I blame, I don't have a group that I blame for everything. We live in a difficult world where survival is a challenge, there will always be things that are nobody's fault. People who have a default boogeyman use them in times of uncertainty: "the gays caused the earthquake", "the patriarchy caused me to miss that promotion", "I drink because of my ex-wife", etc.
But do I blame feminism for the things it's responsible for? You bet.
edit: I don't mind donwvotes, but I do take notice when something is downvoted in less time than it would take to read and reflect on the comment.
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How do you know the average age of the people in this thread? From the linked article - "In 2013, if you were a man between the ages of 20 and 49 who’d died, the most likely cause was not assault nor car crash nor drug abuse nor heart attack, but a decision that you didn’t wish to live any more". Dismissing the people who try to talk about these issues and branding everyone 'MRAs' seems like an attempt to kill any di…
From the World health organization, the age group with the highest suicide is 45 - 54 That group used to be the 4th most at risk, now it is the most. But as important as this issue is, some of the most upvoted posts include: "TV...only show men as drunken idiots", "We're turning into a bunch of sissy, touchy feely men", "This is a product of the wrong people continuously trying to redefine masculinity", "The issue ha…
Often it is the subtle, everyday things that you can't put your finger on that trouble the subconscious the most. So while an advert here or a comment there might be inconsequential, years or even decades of constant exposure will take its toll.