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Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

bbc.co.uk

51–60 of 91 posts

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#51
post #41
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a variety of attempts to explain the difference. I'm not sure how true any of these are but: 1) women self harm more frequenty than men, which means it's more likely that they get early intervention and help. 2) women communicate better than men meaning they get constant low level support and easier path into treatment 3) men use methods that are more lethal and less survivable. 4) stigma, discrimination, l…

1. Could be, I don't know the numbers, what about alcohol as self harm/medication? 2. Could be, I don't know the numbers but it sounds reasonable 3. Could be, then we should see that the numbers of suicidal attempts were as high for women in the same age. 4. Should be the same for women and men right?

3. The number of reported suicidal attempts are actually higher for women.

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#52
post #35
post #2

Because if life isn't working out in the way you expected, it starts to become apparent in your 40's.

So true. Statistically speaking, we can't all reach our goals and fulfil our dreams, because many people share the same goals/dreams. By your 40s it is really hitting home if you have missed the boat. You're running out of time to turn it around, and those rutted-in habits are tough to break. You begin to realise how bad some past decision were. Getting through this for most people is tough. Throw in some relationshi…

Adding to all that...

In your 40's (for a man) is realy when a lot of life's possibilities close off for you. If you haven't already set your life's trajectory to your satisfaction, you are in serious trouble. Before 40, it seems there is still time to fix things. Switch careers, move, get more education, etc.

This all happens to women to, but in their 30's, especially so with regards to family. But somehow they must deal with it better.

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#53
As a 40 year old man myself, I've felt the growing ageism in the tech industry since I turned 30. This even here in laid back RTP, NC. I'd imagine it's worse off in the startupy world in Silicon Valley. Every man is different, but I think for me it's a matter of not being able to provide the lifestyle I want to provide for my wife and kids. The movie RV (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0449089/) is quite relevant too.

As a former software developer who is now being forced into a powerpoint developer role but is not quite a manager, what can be done?

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#54
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be sexist, but some people claim that women never blame themselves for any life problems and find a way of justifying themselves no matter what.

More importantly it is wrong.

Why do you believe it is wrong?

Is this merely dueling anecdotes (plus vacri's accusation of sexism, as if that were a real argument), or is there actual data?

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#55
post #33

Maybe it's because by the age of forty you've probably run out of the steam that comes free, mostly from the external expectations of what you should do. It's easy to finish school, go study something, then get a job, get a better job, start a family, have kids and pay for the bills because you don't really have to think much about what do you want from your life. Where did you come from? Why are you here? What are y…

I agree with you.

Let me add that many accomplished people didn't achieve much before old age. The media has been spreading the myth that success only lies in the youth.

Here's a very interesting HN comment section on the article "Does life end at 35?": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6640430

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#56
post #27

I am 40 this year, and while I don't want to kill myself, I understand the feeling of having failed. It is even stronger (IMHO) if you work in start-up/tech because you're either millionaire or... obsolete. Finding inner peace is important for anybody, but even more critical at 40.

Why do you think you have failed? Because the superficial rule set of your surrounding social group dictates so? If you don't harm other people and every now and then make someone happy or smile - then you did not, do not and will not fail! Guys like Donald Trump are failures [1] - you most likely are not. Do something to reshift perspectives if you're stuck in one that makes you feel so bad about your life that you…

Donald Trump is an obviously insecure man, so he's pretty low value even by the aforementioned superficial rule set.

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#57
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone said there's less suicides during times of economic depression, They were wrong. There are more suicides (at least, in England) during recession.

Well, and I don't think this is a nitpick, a recession is not the same as a depression. It would be good to get the original source for both of these facts to compare. Perhaps during recession, the number of "failures" is not increased quite enough to create the "generally accepted reason for failure" you might find in a depression.

At least in Finland, there was a decrease in suicide rates in 1940-1945 (war) and the more recent downward trend started from 1990 (beginning of very strong 5-year recession).

After the war and immediate reconstruction, the suicide rates predominantly climbed up from 1950 to 1990.

http://tilastokeskus.fi/til/ksyyt/2010/ksyyt_2010_2011-12-16...

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#58
As a young man (maybe it's similar for women, but I suspect there is are some differences here) thinking about your life and its possibilities is usually about the environment.

I thought of my own "hard abilities" like talent in math or sports as a fixed thing or more precisely a sort of talent effort equation. I though of the environment (if I get this opportunity) as the determining wildcard. I thought of my own courage, ingenuity and strength of character as inexhaustible wells. If success hinges on my determination and strength of character, success is guaranteed. Just give me the chance. I'll take it from there.

Reality is less rosy. There is a reason we admire (or detest) those with genuinely powerful strength of character. It's rare and valuable.

At 40 (or earlier, later, I dunno exactly) your own part becomes more clear. Your failings are big. They're behind you and ahead of you. You can see them and their causes. What you haven't achieved and your role in it is clear. What you won't achieve and your inevitable role in that becomes clearer.

Failure (again, I think it's relevant that my own experience is as a man), is heartbreaking for a man. It hits us at our core. It shatters our illusions and strips us of what we allow ourselves to think we are.

It's hard being a person. It hurts being a person. It's heartbreaking. It's painful. It really is so much more than we can take, to feel all the pain in earnest.

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#59

The average age at which a man goes through his first divorce is about 36. [1] Here's the cocktail: 1) By 40 you've gotten divorced, and probably have a split family. Those post divorce years can be incredibly difficult for everyone. 2) Life hasn't worked out as you hoped, and your youth is mostly behind you. If you happen to lose a career at this juncture, it can be difficult to regain your footing due to routine ag…

[deleted]

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#60
post #33

Maybe it's because by the age of forty you've probably run out of the steam that comes free, mostly from the external expectations of what you should do. It's easy to finish school, go study something, then get a job, get a better job, start a family, have kids and pay for the bills because you don't really have to think much about what do you want from your life. Where did you come from? Why are you here? What are y…

> In the average, it looks like that women seem to get energized in midlife whereas men seem to lose power.

Could this be natural, in a way? Women have always had to look after the wellbeing and social standing of their offspring, because their own survival derived from them more often than not. By 40, they either have teen-aged kids in their formative years, or they're grandmothers; in both cases, they must be at full steam. This has not changed much in modern times, if anything it's become easier to deal with (they are not going to starve if their children don't work on the farm).

Men have a different set of "natural" expectations. Fighters by 40 were either dead or veterans with respected social status; agricultural workers would be phasing out, with children taking over some of their duties. This is very different now: a lot of men at 40 have average jobs that will expect the same level of performance day-in day-out, no "phasing out" allowed (especially in tight economic times) and no real social status either. It's easy to feel dejected when looking back.

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