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Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

bbc.co.uk

31–40 of 91 posts

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#31
post #7
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do you explain the difference between male and female? Women has lower expectations of life or they hit their expectations better than men in general?

This might be sexist, but some people claim that women never blame themselves for any life problems and find a way of justifying themselves no matter what.

It's outrageously sexist. Plenty of women blame themselves for problems that aren't their fault - it's one of the reasons why many women stay in physically abusive relationships.

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#32
post #22
post #18

Someone said there's less suicides during times of economic depression, because then there's a generally accepted reason for failure. In times of success, there isn't and so it must be our fault. The more we believe that success of life is based on merit, the more disappointment will occur.

> Someone said there's less suicides during times of economic depression, They were wrong. There are more suicides (at least, in England) during recession.

Well, and I don't think this is a nitpick, a recession is not the same as a depression. It would be good to get the original source for both of these facts to compare. Perhaps during recession, the number of "failures" is not increased quite enough to create the "generally accepted reason for failure" you might find in a depression.

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#33
Maybe it's because by the age of forty you've probably run out of the steam that comes free, mostly from the external expectations of what you should do.

It's easy to finish school, go study something, then get a job, get a better job, start a family, have kids and pay for the bills because you don't really have to think much about what do you want from your life. Where did you come from? Why are you here? What are you to do here? What's your call in life? But the crisis that happens roughly at midlife brings those questions to the surface: "Is this all to it? What is going on and where am I in it?"

Men are not necessarily as socially integrated as women. Going through the big questions alone is something a lot of people simply don't survive. They are likely to lose their momentum in life, often get depressed, and at the extreme end some even kill themselves because too many old things turn out to be meaningless. Some become workaholics or develop a way to escape the emptiness and recreate purpose artificially. But a lot of men just lose the momentum, or a significant part of it. In contrast, more women talk to other women or therapists or relatives about what they're going through. In the average, it looks like that women seem to get energized in midlife whereas men seem to lose power.

It then depends on the man himself whether he's the kind who will eventually emerge and see his vision for life more clearly than before or who will lose his sight for life more or less permanently. Social circles with positive examples of what men can, at the best, grow into in their 40's and 50's could make a big difference but there aren't many of those these days.

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#34
post #27

I am 40 this year, and while I don't want to kill myself, I understand the feeling of having failed. It is even stronger (IMHO) if you work in start-up/tech because you're either millionaire or... obsolete. Finding inner peace is important for anybody, but even more critical at 40.

Why do you think you have failed?

Because the superficial rule set of your surrounding social group dictates so?

If you don't harm other people and every now and then make someone happy or smile - then you did not, do not and will not fail!

Guys like Donald Trump are failures [1] - you most likely are not.

Do something to reshift perspectives if you're stuck in one that makes you feel so bad about your life that you even associate this with the subject at hand. Travelling, reading, moving, meditating, ...

[1]: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1943873/

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#35
post #2

Because if life isn't working out in the way you expected, it starts to become apparent in your 40's.

So true. Statistically speaking, we can't all reach our goals and fulfil our dreams, because many people share the same goals/dreams.

By your 40s it is really hitting home if you have missed the boat. You're running out of time to turn it around, and those rutted-in habits are tough to break. You begin to realise how bad some past decision were.

Getting through this for most people is tough. Throw in some relationship trouble, career trouble, drug or alcohol troubles and it is a toxic brew.

I think it's why learning to fail is vitally important for everyone, and the current 'everyone's a winner' childhood treatment is a time bomb. People push self esteem by vacuously pumping themselves up with positive affirmations. But true self esteem is gained through competence. While a child might suspend reality enough to believe their crap artwork is just as good as the talented kid at the other desk, by the time you are forty you can't kid yourself any longer.

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women tend to choose less effective methods, like wrist-cutting or sleeping pills, while men are more likely to choose hanging or shoot themselves.

The interesting question here is why the difference in method choice.

Well suicide can either be a cry for help or a decision that life isn't worth living. Maybe more men decide the latter.

I also think the financial/work aspect is being overlooked. At around 40 a man will be most likely to have kids/mortgage/wife to support.

For him, it looks like another 25 years of the same 9 to 5 drudgery. This is probably made worse by the face that his spouse is at home or working part time looking after the kids and is pretty much put to pasture, the hard part of her life is over, alot of women don't pick up their career after having kids and will rely on their spouse for support.

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#37
post #4
post #2

Because if life isn't working out in the way you expected, it starts to become apparent in your 40's.

So how do you explain the difference between male and female? Women has lower expectations of life or they hit their expectations better than men in general?

I think they hit their expectations more often.

Lots of women develop goals of having a family, a decent husband and stability in their life. Not all, obviously, but it is a common enough set of goals. Lots of women achieve these goals and gain a state of relative happiness.

Lots of men develop goals of things like sporting prowess, business success and material wealth. These things are much less common to achieve than a decent family life.

I think underlying it all is the fact that men are also generally more capable of violent acts, probably including towards themselves.

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#38
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone said there's less suicides during times of economic depression, They were wrong. There are more suicides (at least, in England) during recession.

Well, and I don't think this is a nitpick, a recession is not the same as a depression. It would be good to get the original source for both of these facts to compare. Perhaps during recession, the number of "failures" is not increased quite enough to create the "generally accepted reason for failure" you might find in a depression.

Okay, that's a fair nitpick. It's explained by my careless use of words. Rates of completed suicide correlate strongly with a bunch of economic indicators: number of people without work; number of house repossessions; etc.

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#39
post #27

I am 40 this year, and while I don't want to kill myself, I understand the feeling of having failed. It is even stronger (IMHO) if you work in start-up/tech because you're either millionaire or... obsolete. Finding inner peace is important for anybody, but even more critical at 40.

I'm 36 and I know what you mean, but I think this "success" stuff is the male equivalent of "being beautiful": something that society relentlessly pushes on us, which we should probably reject from first principles.

Re: Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

#40
post #27

I am 40 this year, and while I don't want to kill myself, I understand the feeling of having failed. It is even stronger (IMHO) if you work in start-up/tech because you're either millionaire or... obsolete. Finding inner peace is important for anybody, but even more critical at 40.

Dealing with failure gets tougher as you get older, just because you being to understand you have a limited set of 'resets' available, and each one is going to be tougher.

Growing ageism in the tech industry is a massive concern, however. But relearning the new thing every couple of years gets very old, so I completely understand how it happens.

Inner peace is the key - as you say - you have to give some missed goals the virtual Viking burial and let go of them. But I think you also need to set new goals or risk losing direction altogether.

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