Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009) • Hacker News Board

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#161

Post by plongeur » Sun, Apr 12, 2015, 10:27 AM UTC

SiVal wrote: post #143

chx wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually summarize this thusly: "I have already made the mistake you are about to make". It should be obvious the time savings would worth it to "rent" me. And I am months away from my 40th birthday.

It's funny you should say that. A few years ago, at a company whose name everyone here knows I, an old gray-hair, almost lost my full-time job for warning a VP that she was about to make a mistake I'd seen before. I honestly thought she was joking when she told me about the approach she was going to use to deal with a "hard deadline" of four months. I laughed along with her joke until, with a shock, we both realized…

Pretty sad story ... I observed this kind of scenario myself :/

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#162

Post by codecamper » Sun, Apr 12, 2015, 10:36 AM UTC

60 something... they made the first PCs! 50 something... First PC OSs and compilers. 40 something... created the first web browsers, and founded the biggest, longest lasting Internet companies. Had to deal with C, slow computers, crazy memory mapping, OSes that crash. 30 something... started Facebook, wrote mobile apps, created hundreds of more narrowly focused internet companies using pre-existing tools. 20 something... hack PHP, ruby, js to create sites that deliver stuff to you. Utilize heaps of VC cash. The book is still open what they'll accomplish.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#163

Post by devonkim » Sun, Apr 12, 2015, 10:39 AM UTC

I'm giving an offer to someone about as old as my father (over 52 easily) because he shows interest in the subject I need code written in, has proven shipped projects with success over decades, and is reasonably competent at the details. My employer is not a Bay Area company though and we are not trying to crank out code on a relentless mission like most are - we're looking for something a bit slower paced, thoughtful, and more "right amount of effort" for fairly simple tasks that I've found require some real world experience to get right. As a result, we're actually biased against younger employees if anything, not the other way around.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#164

Post by arh68 » Sun, Apr 12, 2015, 10:41 AM UTC

I call shenanigans on the original NYT article.

According to a survey conducted by the National Science Foundation and the Census Bureau, six years after finishing college, 57 percent of computer science graduates are working as programmers; at 15 years the figure drops to 34 percent, and at 20 years -- when most are still only in their early 40's -- it is down to 19 percent.

What they fail to talk about is the 7 different occupations similar to 'computer programmer'. Are you a Computer scientists and systems analyst? Or a Network and computer systems administrator? Is your job title Computer software engineer? Maybe you're a Electrical/electronic engineer or a Computer hardware engineer? Then you are not a Computer Programmer.

NYT cherry picked one occupation of many. If you're 40 and you've migrated job titles past Programmer, you contribute to this 'rampant ageism'.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#165

Post by jroseattle » Sun, Apr 12, 2015, 10:42 AM UTC

Before we talk Plan B, let's talk Plan A. The article equates age (and obsolescence) to Plan A. This is incorrect. Age is not a plan.

Plan A is continually improving your skills. Breadth and depth. Know one thing fairly well? Become excellent at it. Is there something way outside your wheelhouse? Get closer to it.

You can't do everything, but chances are there is something you can do to improve your overall skill set. The great thing about Plan A is that age has nothing to do with it. It's a personal choice that you control.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#166

Post by scalesolved » Sun, Apr 12, 2015, 10:42 AM UTC

siberianbear wrote: post #138

misteredison12 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give more details on your story? I'm particularly interested in how much you needed to retire, and how you've set everything up to make yourself comfortable that you won't run out of money.

This subject has been researched in great detail. There's lots of great information all over the Internet. I recommend these two blogs if you want to learn more: http://earlyretirementextreme.com/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ The TL;DR is this: you need to be able to live off about 3.5% of your portfolio for one year. That will allow you to avoid depleting your principal over a very long term, and also give yourse…

That sounds fantastic, I'd love to read a more in depth blog post about this!

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#167

Post by pdpi » Sun, Apr 12, 2015, 11:01 AM UTC

SiVal wrote: post #143

chx wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually summarize this thusly: "I have already made the mistake you are about to make". It should be obvious the time savings would worth it to "rent" me. And I am months away from my 40th birthday.

It's funny you should say that. A few years ago, at a company whose name everyone here knows I, an old gray-hair, almost lost my full-time job for warning a VP that she was about to make a mistake I'd seen before. I honestly thought she was joking when she told me about the approach she was going to use to deal with a "hard deadline" of four months. I laughed along with her joke until, with a shock, we both realized…

To be honest, I don't find it that surprising. Being laughed at is not something people take kindly to. Of all the possible ways of letting her know that you thought her plan sucked, that was the one that was doomed to fail right from the start.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#168

Post by biehl » Sun, Apr 12, 2015, 11:07 AM UTC

SiVal wrote: post #143

chx wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually summarize this thusly: "I have already made the mistake you are about to make". It should be obvious the time savings would worth it to "rent" me. And I am months away from my 40th birthday.

It's funny you should say that. A few years ago, at a company whose name everyone here knows I, an old gray-hair, almost lost my full-time job for warning a VP that she was about to make a mistake I'd seen before. I honestly thought she was joking when she told me about the approach she was going to use to deal with a "hard deadline" of four months. I laughed along with her joke until, with a shock, we both realized…

I try to always write minutes from meetings. Sometimes I also send them out. Other times I just store them somewhere that has 3rd party timestamps (dropbox or googledocs).

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#169

Post by mhomde » Sun, Apr 12, 2015, 11:08 AM UTC

isomorphic wrote: post #21

bikamonki wrote: post #2

More options: - Go solo. At 40 you should be experienced enough to handle up to mid-sized projects, alone and on a reasonable time-frame. Try to pick projects that your clients will actually use, with new features and support contracts you will have steady income for the long-term. - Go startup. Stop thinking you need to come up with the next über-for-x. There are plenty of opportunities for small sass shops that cat…

I'm over 40 and I've always worked as a consultant. Until recently I was the sole developer on a site doing eight figures in revenue (now I'm team lead). Without being arrogant here, if my skills match but someone doesn't want my level of experience, it's not a good sign for the someone. On the flip side, I would love to throw out all of the languages and frameworks I've been using for the past few years and learn en…

A novice doesn't know what tools he need. An expert has mastered the tools he has been given. A master starts thinking about the tools he COULD have :)

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#170

Post by random_coder » Sun, Apr 12, 2015, 11:13 AM UTC

aksx wrote: post #101

JeremyMorgan wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a programmer in my 20s, I saw the same among my peers and tried to emulate an engineer in my 30s. I stayed mature, tried to focus on the big picture and was always open to advice from elders because I didn't know squat yet and was aware of it. Just by doing that I excelled in many areas, and now as a n almost 40 year old developer I try to hire people who act like I did, and believe me they're out there.

This is exactly why I enjoy reading HN. As a 21 year old software developer, I do not understand how can someone be arrogant, just opening github makes me acknowledge what I still need to learn.

Then I'd say you have the right mindset for a software engineer :)