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Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

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Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#141

Post by wyclif »

aikah wrote: post #128
MCRed wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm approaching 50, am employed, though I've found that the job search is a bit harder now-- particularly with bay area startups I saw a %100 correlation: If the interview as on video (eg: they could see the white in my beard) I didn't get a second interview. If by phone (no video) I'd get offers. Also, last year in Austin I made exactly %20 more than I did in Seattle in 2000. Kinda sad-- up %20 in 15 years-- that do…

there was a news once about a 40/50 y.o. guy ( I think he was from UK ) who couldn't get a job as a manager in US because he was semi-bald. So he shaved his head entirely and found a good position in a flash. I need to find the link , this was an interesting story. Look is important,unfortunately, but it isn't always about age, sometimes you're too fat, or not white enough ...

I remember that story, it was on the front page of HN back in 2012. The guy shaved his head, did a fashion makeover, bought the latest iPhone or whatever, and then on top of that had eyelid surgery with the goal of making his appearance more youthful:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/27/us-valley-ageism-i...

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#142

Post by zo1 »

flexie wrote: post #89
LoSboccacc wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pay squash is why you should get out of field. engineering is the new proletariat, working at companies that rake in millions for pennies, while all managers above you get twice your pay just by organizing your time.

Engineering is certainly not a proletariat. Engineers make more money than most professions and have more interesting jobs as well as lots of respect from other professions (I am not an engineer and I can tell you lots of people admire engineers). Also, many professions experience "pay squash". It's a myth that most managers make much more than programmers and that they "just" organize your time. Let's have a little…

>"It's a myth that most managers make much more than programmers and that they "just" organize your time."

Well, instead of just saying it's a myth and relying on averaged stats in the industry to satiate peoples' curiosity/jealousy, perhaps we should just all be more open about how much we all make. I.e. let's not make it taboo and "contractually-breaking" to discuss salaries openly.

I know, yes, our current employment culture won't easily handle the strain of all coworkers knowing each others' and their superiors' salaries. But I have noticed the trend reversing slowly.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#143

Post by SiVal »

chx wrote: post #30
isomorphic wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm over 40 and I've always worked as a consultant. Until recently I was the sole developer on a site doing eight figures in revenue (now I'm team lead). Without being arrogant here, if my skills match but someone doesn't want my level of experience, it's not a good sign for the someone. On the flip side, I would love to throw out all of the languages and frameworks I've been using for the past few years and learn en…

I usually summarize this thusly: "I have already made the mistake you are about to make". It should be obvious the time savings would worth it to "rent" me. And I am months away from my 40th birthday.

It's funny you should say that. A few years ago, at a company whose name everyone here knows I, an old gray-hair, almost lost my full-time job for warning a VP that she was about to make a mistake I'd seen before. I honestly thought she was joking when she told me about the approach she was going to use to deal with a "hard deadline" of four months. I laughed along with her joke until, with a shock, we both realized that I was actually laughing at her actual plan. She became indignant and ended our meeting (just the two of us), getting me transferred for "not being supportive of the team" and trying, unsuccessfully, to get me fired.

She gave the job to her three dozen "supportive" young programmers, who ended up taking 28 months (!!) to get the "4-month" project finally working.

So, after all that, did she eventually apologize and tell me that, yes, she'd made the same mistake I told her I'd seen before with the same results for the same reason, and that she should have at least asked me more about it instead of throwing me out? Of course not. This is the real world. She never spoke to me again and never forgave me.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#145

Post by marincounty »

>This article is using information collated in 1998. >I have met a lot of unemployed former Programmers though? >When I was younger I has no idea just how fast 40 would come. One downturn cycle in the economy, and poof--you're there? (I do believe our bubble is about to burst again?) >It does seem like certain young individuals come up with the most original ideas.(Certain, not all, and if you need to tell people about your brilliant ideas; your ideas might be very unoriginal?) >When I was in my twenties, you couldn't pay me enough to sit in front of a screen all day. I would crack one those 500 page phone books, and want to puke. As I got older, my priorities changed, along with my ability to study boring things. Yes, I said it. I find a lot of computing boring, and very tedious. Ironic?

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#146

Post by microtonal »

olavgg wrote: post #97
crdoconnor wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Don't specialize in things that depreciate as rapidly as programming languages C has been around since 1972 and is just as relevant as ever even as the popularity of C++ wanes. Python has been around since 1991 and is growing in popularity. There is a trick to figuring out which technologies will stick around for the long haul, and it is one which most developers don't even think to try and hone. My career advice wo…

I don't get it when people say Java will be less popular. Today it is in most cases, my platform of choice. Modern Java is a damn fun development environment. You just need the right tools like Maven, IntelliJ Idea, Spring Loaded and so on.

I have written a lot of Java the last 2-3 years, with Maven, IntelliJ, and Dropwizard. This after years of C++, Prolog, and Haskell. Fun is not exactly the predicate I would attach to modern Java.

Of course, this is all subjective. But I can barely imagine that people coming from more expressive statically typed languages would like Java very much.

(That's not to say that the tooling for Java isn't extremely good.)

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#147

Post by sklivvz1971 »

Age has got nothing to do with programming. Ageism is just a bias (or fear) that some people have of losing their talent or skills.

Trust me, it doesn't happen.

What happens, instead, is that people get bored, or stop coding and lose the skills they don't practice, or get offered better paid jobs in management, etc.

Years back, maybe programming didn't have much to offer in terms of personal growth, I don't know. It's certainly not the case today -- I see people growing into better and better programmers, more rewarded, but also more interested, as time goes by.

Most companies you actually want to work for don't care about your age. If they do, is because they are just going to use you (like, code for 80 hours because you don't have a family and don't know any better...)

Now -- the real problem is that most people in programming really have no aptitude, skill or passion for it, and should at some point get out... but that's just me being an old fart ;-)

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#150

Post by marincounty »

marincounty wrote: post #145

>This article is using information collated in 1998. >I have met a lot of unemployed former Programmers though? >When I was younger I has no idea just how fast 40 would come. One downturn cycle in the economy, and poof--you're there? (I do believe our bubble is about to burst again?) >It does seem like certain young individuals come up with the most original ideas.(Certain, not all, and if you need to tell people abo…

I guess I am getting old. I am to lazy to reformat my comment. I thought > would do it? Definetly don't hire
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