This is a sad article. There used to exist guidelines to beahvior, one being "don't fish off the company dock". Following that would eliminate almost all of the sexual harassment BS.
Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower
331–340 of 407 posts
Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower
#332Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of every claim you have heard, this is the one you think isn't real?
I think the reason you always see these sort of responses in these threads is that most men really have zero awareness of what women have to put up with in everyday life. If we imagine that only 1 in 20 guys is a creep or worse, and that all of these men will remain regular offenders throughout their life, that's still a huge amount of individual incidents of women being made to feel uncomfortable (or worse). When yo…
Give me a break. She's been raped, bribed, assaulted, abused... the list goes on. Could it be any more dramatic? I see a movie in this. Perhaps someone is writing a script?
More fiction:
"I have spoken at a professional conference and had about two dozen drunk fully grown men shout-chant at me to take my shirt off."
If you can't recognise that as BS, I can't help you.
I'm not denying sexism exists in the world, but we shouldn't deny that some people do have a tendency to fill in the blanks of an otherwise uninteresting but personal incident in their lives to give it more attention.
She needs support and help, and probably not the wrath of comments like mine. But as "someone on the internet" I have no reason other than to call it as I see it.
The other possibility is she suffers from schizophrenia and actually believed two dozen men were chanting at a professional conference for her to take her top off. Most conferences are recorded... let's see or hear the tape. Show me the evidence of this event and I'll donate $500 to the charity of your choice.
She wrote this for international women's day. But it's not about women, it's about her, and it's fiction.
My advice to her would be to stick with robotics, games and the other interesting things she does, and report incidents as they happen to the relevant authorities. MOST MEN in tech are decent human beings, and I for one am not going to sit here and take an article meant for international women's day turned personal vendetta aimed at an entire industry and the men within. With lines such as "fundamentally change the balance of power between genders", and "sexism in tech is out of control"... she has a hidden agenda, and I'm not on board. Good luck to her anyway!
Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower
#333Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower
#334Earlier quoted context omitted.
> cocaine fueled parties filled with hookers that seem to regularly emerge from the world of finance. Your finance industry stereotypes are about 30 years out of date. Wall Street is way less flagrant about their excess these days. Meanwhile, in tech... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titstare
>Your finance industry stereotypes are about 30 years out of date. Not as blatant as the "golden age", perhaps, but it seems "hookers and blow" still figure in the lifestyle. A former hedge fund trader published a book a couple years ago detailing how his company (within the last decade) plied clients with prostitutes and a wide array of illegal narcotics: http://nypost.com/2013/05/30/former-hedge-fund-titan-bares-a.…
The first sentence of your second link:
> The excesses of 1980s New York investment banking as captured best (and with just a dose of hyperbole) by Bret Easton Ellis's American Psycho may be long gone in the US...
Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower
#335I feel so naive asking this, but I really would like to better understand the specific scenario that led to being raped repeatedly "several times over months" by a colleague. Especially because it apparently happened to another female colleague by another man "in much the same way my attacker had raped me." I don't doubt FOR A MINUTE that this can happen but perhaps understanding the circumstances could provide a foc…
Story from a friend of a friend's law firm. Young associate worked for this partner. Over the course of months, he coerced her into giving him blowjobs. Eventually she quit. 1) Why is this rape? Because coercion doesn't just take the form of physical violence. 2) Why not report to the police? Because it's mutually assured destruction. Even if you bring the guy down, you'll be known as the woman who called the police…
That is absolutely not rape.
Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower
#336Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because there was less rape when there were larger family. Right...
Dude. From the article: I had a boss once who knew he was sexist (also homophobic and transphobic), but was trying to get over it. He said some incredibly dumb things, like offering to have a company meeting at a strip club. He genuinely had bizarre concepts of what’s appropriate and inappropriate behavior. He was ashamed of this and really trying to improve. Listening to him quote the sexual harassment seminars was…
You quoted a bit from the article that had nothing to do with family, and then instead of justifying your point, you just re-iterated it. Then you made up what you thought my opinion of you was. Like, get a grip.
You know what increases in large families? Chances of sibling sexual abuse. http://www.socialworktoday.com/archive/111312p18.shtml
> social activists like you
You say it like it's a bad thing. :)
Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower
#337Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not a native English speaker and I wouldn't bet on myself coming up with an appropriate description. However, using any word would be perfectly fine if the authors dedicate a short paragraph at the beginning explaining what they mean by the words they use, especially if they don't mean the same things most people are used to. I keep getting down-voted, so, maybe it helps to repeat: I'm not saying that this isn't…
I'm not among your downvotes, and I don't believe you're minimizing rape (of the obviously violent or not obviously violent sort), though I can see how some could see it that way; the fact that you're a non-native speaker may also be contributing to it, though I think your English is quite good, and I believe I understood you the first time. I asked for suggestions for alternatives not as a challenge, but as a sincer…
Wow, that's... I don't know what to say. I'm not sure if he has an evil agenda or plain ignorant. Now, looking at it from your perspective, it makes sense. I still wonder if people can be educated to see any kind of involuntary sex and sexual abuse as rape. I guess it's a matter of being pragmatic vs idealistic and I'm not sure which would work.
Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower
#338Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But most people don't subscribe to your consent based definition of rape. I think the majority of people would lean towards the force based definition of rape. You are wrong; see for example Wikipedia, which represents a broad agreement of many editors and includes both coercion and abuse of authority as types of rape. Edit to reply to swatow since I've hit the reply limit: that's a good article and I hope you read…
I don't see how the opinion of Wikipedia editors is a good source for how rape is defined colloquially. Here is an article that discusses the controversy over force based vs consent based definitions of rape. http://www.newrepublic.com/article/117630/jed-rubenfeld-rape...
That's a good article! But I'm kind of confused why you linked it, when it so closely supports the position you've been arguing against?
As your link makes clear, most states, the federal government, the legal community, and popular opinion has moved away from force based definitions as archaic and offensive. Which was, of course, my point.
I mean, it's literally an article about one iconoclasts weird and much criticized view that maybe rape shouldn't be defined as sex without consent. Even if you agree with him, the existence of the article proves that it's a fringe position, right? (And much of the article is actually just Rubenfeld saying he actually agrees with is critics, and disagrees with the historical requirement to show force, so...)
Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower
#339Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am saying that if the victim decides to call it rape because that's how it felt, my first response (nor second, nor third) would not be to discuss the finer points of the law and debate the legal use of the term. People who act maliciously don't need justification from me. But sexism is usually inadvertent, and "everyone's a lawyer" is a classic, usually innocent, response. So people who are not misogynist, but sim…
I'm not sure what the point of replying to my comment is if you're not going to answer my question to you. Here it is again if you missed it: Are you saying even if it wasn't a rape by whatever your very own definition of rape, you would rather call it rape to express outrage? I see a lot these sorts of threads end up with people talking past each other and not really responding to each other questions. Let's try not…
I think I've answered it, but I'll answer again. If the victim calls it rape, I am not going to argue with her, because there are much more important things to discuss than legal definitions. I am not part of the legal bureaucracy, I don't know the law, and besides, the laws are different in different places. When a victim says she was raped she doesn't use the word to match the penal code of whatever jurisdiction she's in, but to describe her experience. As I am not a lawyer, and not discussing legal proceedings, I will use whatever name the victim uses, because, at least for the time being, that's the only name that can be used.
What I think is terrible, though, is that when a fellow worker in my industry describes a horrible experience, some people's first response is to discuss the precise legal definition of said horrible experience. It does not surprise me, though, as "everybody's a lawyer" is a very common sexist response to such events. You'll notice that stories by men are not met with the same discourse.
In any case, the very first thing for someone wishing to learn how sexism and racism work, is by reading this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_(social_and_political)
Re: Sexism in Tech: Don’t Ask Me Unless You’re Ready to Call Someone a Whistleblower
#340Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why leave? Report those issues. The real question is why just let it slide and then write a blog about it. Rape is not something you should just let people get away with and move on with your life
I want to do something more with my life than make sure some asshole gets what they deserve. I want my life to be about more than that.
One way I think males can better relate is to consider bullying. There'd be no bullying in school if every single time it happened a child went to the authorities, was taken seriously, the perpetrator was punished and there was no backlash on the victim. Yet we know that many kids put up with a fair degree of bullying because going to the Principal completely changes the game. They fear overt or subtle retribution and social ostracizing. They become defined by everybody at school as the dude who was a victim _and_ went to the authorities and got other people in trouble. So it's no wonder that many incidents of bullying (and sexual harassment) are not reported. Only when the stigma goes away will it happen.