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When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

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Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#71

Post by Karunamon »

smm2000 wrote: post #69
ordinary wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are an employer despicable enough to systematically be paying women less just for being women, I don't think another redundant law is going to change your behavior. Women don't earn about 18% less than men (OECD median, 2008)[0] because a small minority of employers pay women almost nothing, but because the vast majority of employers pay women (or blacks, or handicapped people) slightly less. Just like laws th…

18% number is bullshit debunked many times. When you control for occupation, working hours, etc between male and female - the difference in pay is only 2-3%

Not that I don't believe you, but could you link to said debunking?

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#72

Post by maayank »

asgard1024 wrote: post #52

> When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid' You say, "Are you ashamed of how much you pay me?", and start looking for another job.

"no, but your kind of talent is so valuable I pay you more than others and the awkwardness would hurt everybody"

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#73

Post by secabeen »

orangecat wrote: post #57
falcolas wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is less of an issue now than it used to be; most companies offer Paternity leave for the same amount of time these days. This amortizes the cost across all employees.

Maybe to some extent, but not fully: - Not every birth has an active father involved. - The physical effects of pregnancy will will likely require the mother to take more time off. - Not all men will want to take extended paternity leave. You can try to force them, but that has its own issues, and makes single men more attractive employees. Mandating that companies pay employees not to work puts them in an awkward po…

Yep. Even though I had support from my employer, I took less paternity leave at the time of birth than I thought I would. Many parents find they want a break from the baby after the first few weeks, and enjoy returning to work.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#74

Post by czep »

wyager wrote: post #50
TheLoneWolfling wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also an issue with maternity leave. Maternity leave means that women effectively cost more than men for the same amount of work, in the long run and on average. This can be mitigated by laws, but cannot be eliminated without addressing the underlying social issues. And no, mandatory paternity leave doesn't eliminate it, as there are more single mothers than single fathers. The logic is simple. Companies survi…

If women are actually, objectively, less productive workers (if your explanation is correct), why is it wrong for companies to pay them less?

Women are not objectively less productive workers. Men die earlier--insurance companies have figured this out so why don't companies pay them less as a result? They're going to die sooner, that's a significant risk to the company, they should be paid less than women. Men are more likely to engage in risky behavior, more likely to have anger management issues, more likely to provoke harrassment cases, all reasons to pay them less because they impose a higher risk on the company.

But for some reason you want to conveniently ignore all these facts and instead point to maternity leave and say that's why we should pay women less? Think again.

But further, if your weren't trolling, the answer to your question is that even if the assumption were true, to pay them less would be sociopathic. That's why it's wrong. Again, think.

If disabled people are actually, objectively, less productive workers, a drain on society, why is it wrong for societies to euthanize them?

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#75

Post by charlesdm »

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #63
tormeh wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A solution is to just make everyone's tax reports public. The worst that happens is you get tasteless websites ranking who earns and owns most in your area. Really, that's it. Norway tried it and it got a little too tasteless for our politicians, so now it's a government website thing where anyone you view can see that you've viewed them. You still get some cool stats, though: http://www.dn.no/skattelister/#!/Norge/2…

> A solution is to just make everyone's tax reports public. Hell no. I don't want to be targeted be advertisers, penalised by insurers, and become a target for robbery because I have my personal information spread around for everyone to see. There's a lot of personal shit on your tax return. Far more than is even apparent. It can also expose your side business to your employer which could cause issues. I'm all for sa…

I totally agree with this. The potential upside of doing this doesn't warrant the massive downside.

Before you know it, you'll be getting bombarded with advertisements.

Besides, in the EU, a society where the average person hates it when someone who is not him is doing well, I'd rather people not know how much I earn.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#76

Post by bithush »

In my opinion salary information should not be kept a secret except on personal request. Openness in pay, responsibilities and performance[0] leads to a far healthier company in my opinion and experience. That is not to say you stick the salary information out in the open in a database for all to check at will but during [pay] reviews I feel it is important to be able to see how much you earn compared to your direct colleagues. This is also good for a company as it means they actively working towards equality.

[0] This is obviously quite difficult because performance can be very tricky to measure fairly and can cause problems in comparisons to other positions. The same is true of performance related bonuses which I am fine with keeping private.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#77

Post by wmt »

tormeh wrote: post #47
crazy1van wrote: post #24

This article seems to basically say its already illegal to prohibit employees from discussing pay (NLRA 1935) and it is certainly illegal to pay someone less based on race or sex (Equal Pay Act, and others) but the solution to wage discrimination is pass more laws that make it illegal-er. I have a hard time buying this argument. If you are an employer despicable enough to systematically be paying women less just for…

A solution is to just make everyone's tax reports public. The worst that happens is you get tasteless websites ranking who earns and owns most in your area. Really, that's it. Norway tried it and it got a little too tasteless for our politicians, so now it's a government website thing where anyone you view can see that you've viewed them. You still get some cool stats, though: http://www.dn.no/skattelister/#!/Norge/2…

Do you mean tax reports, or just the taxable income? At least in Finland only your taxable incomes after deductions are public information, which a decent compromise between transparency and privacy.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#78

Post by nawitus »

lotsofmangos wrote: post #67
wyager wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If women are actually, objectively, less productive workers (if your explanation is correct), why is it wrong for companies to pay them less?

If women stopped getting pregnant then maternity would cease to be a societal cost, however the economy might get a little screwed as the human race dies off. Parents are your most productive employees. They are the only ones who are making more employees.

That's a good reason for the state to pay for maternity leave instead of individual companies.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#79

Post by bronbron »

lotsofmangos wrote: post #67
wyager wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If women are actually, objectively, less productive workers (if your explanation is correct), why is it wrong for companies to pay them less?

If women stopped getting pregnant then maternity would cease to be a societal cost, however the economy might get a little screwed as the human race dies off. Parents are your most productive employees. They are the only ones who are making more employees.

Eh, way in the future though. It's a classic tragedy of the commons. Each individual company is better off discriminating, but ultimately it causes a depletion in resources (i.e. employees) long-term.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#80

Post by [deleted] »

lotsofmangos wrote: post #67
wyager wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If women are actually, objectively, less productive workers (if your explanation is correct), why is it wrong for companies to pay them less?

If women stopped getting pregnant then maternity would cease to be a societal cost, however the economy might get a little screwed as the human race dies off. Parents are your most productive employees. They are the only ones who are making more employees.

[deleted]
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