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When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

theatlantic.com

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Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#51

Post by woodpanel »

Iv wrote: post #9

I work for more than a decade now and I still am unsure about what rule to follow. Here are a few things that I have seen happening: I once believed in transparency about that. I told my salary to a friend I just helped to get hired in the company where I already had a few years of experience. Upon hearing my higher salary, he immediately went to my boss to ask for a raise. Due to an incredible incompetence of the HR…

What do I gain by sharing my salary with others? What does it cost me? For me, there are moral answers, economical ones as well as hedonistic ones to these questions.

But I know this:

Information is king and it helps to be flexible (abillity to move for a job, ability to start there quickly, ability to be out of a job for weeks/months ...).

I try to do this: advise colleagues that I think should earn more, what to do, what expectations are ok, without destroying team morale and my (selfish) status (knowing that I earn top).

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#53

Post by yxhuvud »

justincormack wrote: post #22
alimoeeny wrote: post #2

I understand that this is against the "wisdom", but I always wanted to build a compensation-transparent-company. In which it is open (at least internally) how much everybody makes (including equity). And people have ways to change their compensation over longish periods of time and the ratio of cash / equity.

Both Sweden and Norway publish everyone's tax payments.

We do, but it takes quite a bit of work to actually look it up for someone.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#54

Post by FigBug »

themystic_ca wrote: post #39
FigBug wrote: post #19

On a recent contract I took, the end client told me what they were paying for my services -- about 6x what I was getting paid. They were pretty annoyed, and I was threatened with legal action for discussing financial matters with an end client. I haven't heard from either side since December, so I'm guessing that contract is pretty much dead.

As a contractor, you do not enjoy the same kinds of protection that an employee does. Nor is discussing pay with the end client equivalent to discussing it with a fellow employee. Maybe if you had been discussing it with fellow contractor it might match some of what the article was talking about. I'm surprised that your contract did not include an NDA that prevented you from discussing this kind of information with t…

My contract did not specifically mention salary though it was argued it was covered by the general confidential information clause. I'm used to working for the government where salary is publicly available, so I didn't even think twice about mentioning it.

It came up when we were reviewing another consultants report, and he had put his compensation in the report. I made a comment of surprise about how much he was being paid, which pretty much gave away I was getting less and they were paying more.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#55

Post by Spooky23 »

dlp211 wrote: post #29
kevbin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state of California puts all its workers' compensation on the web: http://www.sacbee.com/site-services/databases/state-pay/#req...

I know that quite a few states do this, I don't have an exact number so I don't want to quantify it, but it's more than at least 8 ( Also, while not directly disclosed on a per employee basis, every single federal employee salary can be determined since their level and years of service is not confidential and their salary is based on a schedule. Same for the military(even easier since they wear their 'level' on their…

Almost all employee salaries are accessible through freedom of information requests.

In the .gov I work for, HR is so incompetent and people are allowed to make up bullshit titles, that accessing the local newspaper's employee database is the quickest way to find out this type of info.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#56

Post by SteveGerencser »

mistermann wrote: post #40
throwaway217384 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting question. I think many, men and women, are still biased against women because they believe they are catty and dramatic or are afraid of increased legal issues (lawsuits). These are obviously not reality either and it too sucks.

Is "women are less likely to counter-offer and negotiate during the hiring process" obviously not reality also? (Serious question.)

It is very likely. My wife is a very well respected Engineer in her field and when she was asked to come out of retirement, she retired to start a farm and enjoy the outdoors, they called her back and made what I thought was a very low offer. She was going to accept it because to her it was a work from home gig and was near what she used to make. I said no and helped her negotiate an additional 30% in her rate that she would have simply left on the table because she didn't feel comfortable asking for more.*

*Yes, anecdotal evidence but I hear it from her and her female engineering friends a lot. To the point I've offered to help any of them negotiate their contracts in the future.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#57

Post by orangecat »

falcolas wrote: post #46
TheLoneWolfling wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also an issue with maternity leave. Maternity leave means that women effectively cost more than men for the same amount of work, in the long run and on average. This can be mitigated by laws, but cannot be eliminated without addressing the underlying social issues. And no, mandatory paternity leave doesn't eliminate it, as there are more single mothers than single fathers. The logic is simple. Companies survi…

This is less of an issue now than it used to be; most companies offer Paternity leave for the same amount of time these days. This amortizes the cost across all employees.

Maybe to some extent, but not fully: - Not every birth has an active father involved. - The physical effects of pregnancy will will likely require the mother to take more time off. - Not all men will want to take extended paternity leave. You can try to force them, but that has its own issues, and makes single men more attractive employees.

Mandating that companies pay employees not to work puts them in an awkward position where they're incentivized to discriminate. If government wants to encourage people to have kids, then government should pay parents directly.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#59

Post by cauterized »

throwaway217384 wrote: post #28
crazy1van wrote: post #24

This article seems to basically say its already illegal to prohibit employees from discussing pay (NLRA 1935) and it is certainly illegal to pay someone less based on race or sex (Equal Pay Act, and others) but the solution to wage discrimination is pass more laws that make it illegal-er. I have a hard time buying this argument. If you are an employer despicable enough to systematically be paying women less just for…

I believe this sometimes happens because women are less likely to counter-offer and negotiate during the hiring process. It sucks.

Which is in part because both men and women's perceptions of a woman become more negative when she negotiates.

Re: When the Boss Says, 'Don't Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid'

#60

Post by tbyehl »

foolinaround wrote: post #3

there is a need for some tool similar to glassdoor that can verify the authencity of the info posted by a user (email address, position, etc) that can be used reliably by others to confidently share salaries without retribution.

Companies are giving this information to Equifax, just not for the benefit of subjects...

https://www.theworknumber.com/

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