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Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

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Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#221
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Garner, from what we know, seems to be a man who did nothing seriously wrong during his encounter with the police. It is quite disturbing that this encounter resulted in his death. It's not even clear that he should have been having an encounter with the police in the first place. We can look at Garner, and see that a great injustice happened to him. Compare to Brown. The police had a very good reason to stop him (wa…

While I generally agree that Brown was responsible, Wilson did do something wrong. He pulled up squealing tires and yelled for Brown to get the F * out of the street. This type of verbal hostility is probably what got Wilson attacked in the first place. He set the fight button off. Not saying Brown was right.. he wasn't right, and he was stupid. Once he let his temper get the better of him, his shooting was all but i…

That's interesting. Did Wilson act that way?

I'm just wondering if there's an audio recording or some such.

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#222
post #3

What, however, can the man of good will do to combat this deeply rooted prejudice? More diversity (in neighborhoods, in workplaces, in schools) would certainly help -- the transition from "us" and "them" to a unified "us." And yet, it's disappointing how segregated America still is today. One fairly in-depth study [1] offers an example of how "today" came to be. (This report is not about any current events, but rathe…

What do you make of this map, then? It shows scores on an Implicit Association Test, measuring subconscious racism by white people against black people.

http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2014/12/R...

There is a liberal-conservative correlation on the map, a but far stronger correlation is the racial makeup of the state. The "deep roots" of racism don't seem to go away with exposure. Other empirical data, such as Robert Putnam's work mentioned in another comment, suggest just the opposite.

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#223
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with your argument. Here are my thoughts why. We have been 'looking beyond our superficial differences' for a while and it hasn't done anything. I actually think 'not seeing race' is itself a form of racism, because a lot of our racism is subconscious, or cultural. We don't have a racism of segregation anymore. It's a racism of omission. Instead there are pay gaps, unfair justice, stereotypes and erasure.…

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I agree that human history is filled with all sorts of atrocities, and slavery and race-influenced violence is among the worst. However, within the past couple decades, we are finally reaching a point where "true" equality is attainable, and I think that the only way we're going to get there is to see people first and foremost as human beings , not as part of some arbitrary collec…

The reason I don't want to think of everyone as human beings first is this:

Everyone is part of an arbitrary collective of traits (most of us here are white, male, American, etc) and each trait affects how we see each other. For example, women are seen as more caring, or bitchy if they have power, whatever. Those stereotypes are bad, and we can't ignore that they still happen.

The way we get rid of these biases things is by recognizing that when we think a woman is being bitchy (or, say a black man angry) it's likely to be our ingrained sexism (/racism). Seeing people as human beings first erases their identities and _removes the opportunity to fix our prejudices_. You and I are both prejudiced, we have to recognize that, and work to remove it from our minds.

Then, on the optimism/pessimism thing. Just keep on investigating the experiences of black people and I think you might become less optimistic about where we are.

It's sometimes tough to see how other people could be disadvantaged (that's called privilege). But when this list of benefits white people have over black people http://amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html#daily doesn't hold any more, _then_ we can get rid of black history month.

We can't overcorrect yet, because, broadly, our institutions themselves are still racist. (See http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/07/15/884649/-Why-there-s... or http://femmagazine.com/reverse-racism-and-reverse-sexism-don...) You don't punch someone in the face then repent with "I'm sorry that happened to you, but it's in the past, you need to heal". That's not true equality. True equality is you apologize, pay for their hospital bills and help them get their life back and recover from what was done to them in the past. That's a true "healing process". Some people see affirmative action as getting punched back, but it's not. Marginalized people's ancestors being mistreated puts them where they are now and we are _continuing_ to mistreat them by not helping them recover from that.

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wilson shot Brown when we was a significant distance from the car (100+ feet) Distance from the car is not relevant. Distance from Wilson is what is relevant. All shots were fired when Wilson was near Brown. There were two shots fired at or near the car (shown by two spent casings near the car), and there is blood there showing Brown was hit. Hence Wilson was near Brown when these shots were fired. The remaining 10…

I presented no disputed testimony...I stuck with things that are strongly supported by the physical evidence. Yes you did. hits an officer in the face and tries to take the officer's gun That is Wilson testimony. Not an objective fact. ...and then turns and runs toward the officer.. This also is not an objective fact. You disputed this yourself in stating that Browns velocity could not be determined. It just as plaus…

"hits an officer in the face and tries to take the officer's gun" That is Wilson testimony. Not an objective fact.

Wilson was treated for redness to his face, as confirmed in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuupBHUGbYo#t=1m02s

In the commonly-believed version of events, Brown would not have been able to injure Wilson's face like that, since he was supposedly running away. But since the officer's face was in fact injured, we can believe Brown must have hit it. And if he was hitting Wilson, he must have been leaning into the cruiser when he was doing it, since there was no other opportunity.

Another objective fact is that Brown was a violent individual who had just robbed a store.

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#225

While Einstein only fully stopped eating animals shortly before his death, there is some indication he also felt uneasy accepting the general attitude on animals as food for some time before that. This is prejudice that that most of us have yet to shake still.

That "prejudice" is extremely subjective and has been going on for millions of years.

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#226
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it was so, one shot would do it, may be only wounding. Yet he had the right to kill, he used it like others. Shooting multiple times or chock holding to make sure that target is dead is execution . They could have shot Garner in leg, instead they used the right to kill. The killings at will are part of the Dominant Force law enforcement framework. In short - instilling fear as anything can happen to you, your…

Police are trained only to shoot to kill because pulling the trigger needs to be a big event. If you think that "shoot to wound" is an option, then of course you're going to pull the trigger more often. You'll become more comfortable shooting people and, presumably, you'll also end up killing people more often. Other reasons for "shoot to kill" relate to effectiveness: in the energy of the situation if you aim to wou…

> Police are trained only to shoot to kill

As I understand it, police are generally taught specifically to shoot center of mass because aiming there is the most effective way to reliably and quickly end the immediate physical threat. This also ends up pretty close to maximizing the killing effectiveness of shots, but is not the primary focus.

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#227
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Garner, from what we know, seems to be a man who did nothing seriously wrong during his encounter with the police. It is quite disturbing that this encounter resulted in his death. It's not even clear that he should have been having an encounter with the police in the first place. We can look at Garner, and see that a great injustice happened to him. Compare to Brown. The police had a very good reason to stop him (wa…

Indeed, what Brown did would have gotten any of us shot.

It literally took me 5 seconds to find at least one instance where it didn't happen that way:

http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/11/24/white-man-beats-two-c...

Anecdotal evidence and all that, but from a foreigners perspective, it seems America still has to deal with racial bias and a police force that is all too happy to escalate situations.

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not remotely defending his thesis (and my life choices contradict his claims pretty well) but you are simply wrong about the crime stats. To choose one category of crime, blacks make up about half of of murderers. However, there are twice as many poor whites as there are poor blacks. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/c... http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceeth... htt…

> To choose one category of crime, blacks make up about half of of murderers. They may make up half of all people convicted of murder, but then its been widely observed across many different categories of crime that, on similar fact patterns, blacks are more likely to be charged with a crime and are likely to be charged with a more serious crime than whites.

Check out the National Crime Victimization Survey which corroborates the conviction stats.

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#229
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I generally agree that Brown was responsible, Wilson did do something wrong. He pulled up squealing tires and yelled for Brown to get the F * out of the street. This type of verbal hostility is probably what got Wilson attacked in the first place. He set the fight button off. Not saying Brown was right.. he wasn't right, and he was stupid. Once he let his temper get the better of him, his shooting was all but i…

That's interesting. Did Wilson act that way? I'm just wondering if there's an audio recording or some such.

That's my understanding. I'm guessing you might already be aware this is probably what happened, but in case not, I trust you will investigate.

There is a reason people are so angry. And I think it's more than a kid (who even the most sympathetic must secretly understand brought it upon himself) getting shot. People in some communities are sick of being treating with lack of respect at nearly all turns by law enforcement. I can't say I blame them.

(edited after thanks and upvote. apologies if content was changed substantially.)

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#230
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting. Did Wilson act that way? I'm just wondering if there's an audio recording or some such.

That's my understanding. I'm guessing you might already be aware this is probably what happened, but in case not, I trust you will investigate. There is a reason people are so angry. And I think it's more than a kid (who even the most sympathetic must secretly understand brought it upon himself) getting shot. People in some communities are sick of being treating with lack of respect at nearly all turns by law enforce…

Thanks for the comment. I hadn't considered that aspect.
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