Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO • Hacker News Board

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#571

Post by faet » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:44 PM UTC

Beliavsky wrote: post #417

Suppose conservative activists push out a CEO because he contributes to Planned Parenthood or otherwise supports legal abortion. Would the Eich critics be OK with that? Many conservatives believe that stopping abortion is as much about human rights as liberals think gay marriage is. Both sides can play the game of getting people fired for views unrelated to their jobs. It would be better if neither side did.

Many oppose companies that push a "gay agenda" or support abortion.

In 1986, 7-Eleven stopped selling Playboy and Penthouse magazines after a two-year boycott by the AFA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Family_Association

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#572

Post by gfodor » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:44 PM UTC

amadeus wrote: post #478

gfodor wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support legalizing gay marriage. But two things, first, supporting prop 8 does not mean you "believe a certain group of people don't deserve to live their lives like others." It means you don't believe that the government should recognize same sex marriages as marriages. There are a large gradient of views here, and on one extreme are the bigots who hate homosexuals and on the other there are people who simply have…

Sorry, you're just wrong. There is no language in prop 8 that has to do with the concept of civil unions. All it DID do was define marriage as being between a man and a woman. Any debate about marriage and a government's role in it is sidestepping the issue. It's a civil rights issue, and he chose to put money in an attempt to create discrimination for a certain kind of people. There's no excuse, he doesn't deserve d…

If you are someone who believes gay people should be allowed to form civil unions, but are offended by the idea that those unions be called marriages, supporting prop 8 is consistent with those views even though it doesn't mention civil unions.

I have no idea why Brendan donated $1,000 to support prop 8, and I'd be skeptical that he'd do so if he didn't actually have much stronger beliefs than the civil unions point. But I still feel like this entire situation where a donation to a widely supported political cause, context free, can cause your life to be ruined is chilling.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#573

Post by ConceptJunkie » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:44 PM UTC

crassus wrote: post #361

dopamean wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree with you but I think the problem here is that being against gay marriage is more than just a "political view." Being for low taxes is a political view. Being for smaller government is a political view. Believing a certain group of people don't deserve to live their lives like other simply because of who they love is not a political view. It reads as extremely hateful and that makes people uncomforta…

Depending on your point of view, legal abortion is either part of a fundamental right for a woman to control her own body or an unprecedented holocaust. Should you have to pick the "right" choice in order to be employed in the tech industry?

Eventually, you will, it seems.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#574

Post by wwweston » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:44 PM UTC

phillmv wrote: post #14

From the recode recap - http://recode.net/2014/04/03/mozilla-co-founder-brendan-eich... >“It’s clear that Brendan cannot lead Mozilla in this setting,” said Baker, who added that she would not and could not speak for Eich. “The ability to lead — particularly for the CEO — is fundamental to the role and that is not possible here.” The most damning aspect of this was their a) inability to predict this would be an issue…

> "I understand how my activities can be seen as divisive and wrong and inconsistent with my commitment to upholding the diverse values underpinning the Mozilla community and I apologize for my behaviour at the time. I will do everything in my power to make up for it and I hope the community can judge me based me on my record from this point onwards".

This is close enough to what he actually said:

https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/

that it's not at all far-fetched to wonder if there's anything he could have said or done that would have been enough.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#575

Post by sp332 » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:45 PM UTC

waterlesscloud wrote: post #570

sp332 wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old people only know gay people as Elton John and Freddie Mercury. Younger people know normal people as gay, so it's no wonder.

Do young people really believe this?

Well, I do, because I was told by older people and it makes sense. Why?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#576

Post by bambax » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:45 PM UTC

DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

Thanks for saying this.

I'm usually very angry with people who oppose gay marriage (why do they care??)

But this is just bullying. This is another form of hate.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#577

Post by xaa » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:45 PM UTC

ewoodrich wrote: post #532

xaa wrote: post #431

My father-in-law is a high-level official in the "Alliance Defending Freedom", which is essentially the conservative counterpart to the ACLU, providing legal advice to conservative causes. For years, he's been telling me about the "gay liberal agenda", which, to him, was not just about promoting gay rights, but also about silencing any freedom of speech advocating opposing viewpoints. I always pooh-poohed him and gen…

I fail to see how a CEO facing criticism for personal political contributions to be evidence of some sort of "gay liberal agenda". He has every right to donate to Prop 8 or whatever cause he likes. He has every right to vocally advocate his position. He does not have a right to be the public facing chief executive of a private organization. I would see no issue with a pro-gay rights CEO being forced to leave Hobby Lo…

I have a problem with the very idea that a mostly apolitical organization like Mozilla should have a sweeping political/social/cultural alignment.

If Eich were opposed to net neutrality, or against open internet standards, etc, those would be damning beliefs for someone in the Mozilla CEO spot. Gay rights, however, have nothing whatsoever to do with Mozilla. (I agree with you that Hobby Lobby would fire a pro-gay-rights CEO, but we probably shouldn't be taking lessons on reasonable behavior from Hobby Lobby.)

If Mozilla does represent any kind of broad social alignment, I would hope that it would be one in favor of diversity of opinion and free speech.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#578

Post by filmgirlcw » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:45 PM UTC

HillRat wrote: post #318

nostrademons wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line of reasoning is very troubling to me, because 20 years ago it was pretty much unacceptable in the U.S. to hold the opinion that gays were entitled to full legal rights, let alone the ability to marry. That changed only because some very courageous people stuck their neck out, weathered all the flack and negative personal repercussions towards themselves, and gradually made the point of "Why not?" I fully su…

There's two sides to that -- the first is that, yes, he absolutely has the right to hold any opinion he wants to, no matter how noxious I or others may find them. To paraphrase Hall on Voltaire, I'll defend to the death their right to be assholes. (Full disclosure: pro- gay marriage, anti-Prop 8, not a CA resident, so doesn't really affect me.) On the other hand, there's no absolute right to be a public-facing CEO, a…

I'm in 100% agreement. Moreover, I think that this was made worse by the fact that not only was there no pre-planning to address the PR issues, which they had to know about (and if they didn't when this already came up, the entire board needs to go, period, b/c that's just amateur hour), Eich's refusal to even explain his position made it hard to not see him as a hate-monger.

If he had defended or explained his position on the basis of religious beliefs -- this might not have ended any differently, but it would at least give the community context for why he feels the way he feels. Not having that context and his outright refusal to elaborate on it, only made it worse.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#579

Post by albedoa » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:45 PM UTC

xaa wrote: post #517

gagaga wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should we have been tolerant of racist people in the 50s and 60s? Was being in favor of segregation a viewpoint people should have respected?

As I said, I disagree with my father-in-law's views, just like I disagree with Eich's views. I have tried to talk my father-in-law out of them. But I certainly don't think employment should be conditional on having the right set of beliefs. That way lies madness -- it's the very reason we forbid employment discrimination based on religion, for example. How can you possibly determine which privately-held beliefs are "…

> How can you possibly determine which privately-held beliefs are "too bad" for you to deserve being employed.

First, it wasn't his beliefs that lost him his employment — it was his actions.

Second, while it's not always as clear, donating money to oppress a group in 2008 is an objectively abhorrent act. You know it when you see it.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#580

Post by barking » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:46 PM UTC

bowlofpetunias wrote: post #521

I am stunned at how many people on HN seem to thing Eich should not be judged on his personal so-called "political" views. If he was a racist in favor of segregation would people still take that position? I seriously doubt it.

Taking a view is one thing, persecution is another.