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Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

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Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#491

Post by macspoofing »

eternalban wrote: post #284
nostrademons wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line of reasoning is very troubling to me, because 20 years ago it was pretty much unacceptable in the U.S. to hold the opinion that gays were entitled to full legal rights, let alone the ability to marry. That changed only because some very courageous people stuck their neck out, weathered all the flack and negative personal repercussions towards themselves, and gradually made the point of "Why not?" I fully su…

> this line of reasoning is very troubling to me .. This entire affair is troubling. This individual's livelihood was affected because of his socio-political views and activities. Your 2nd paragraph correctly underlines the more important issue.

Where have you been living the past, I don't know, all your life. Many socio-political views are untenable and would affect your livelihood negatively if they are known publicly. The only thing that changed is that being against gay-marriage specifically, and gay-rights generally, is now seen in the same light(at least in certain parts of the country). Brendan Eich found himself on the wrong side of history before he even realized this. Too many trips to Indonesia maybe?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#492

Post by lordCarbonFiber »

crassus wrote: post #306
thinkpad20 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is abridging Eich's freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is the right to express yourself, not the right to have no one judge you for it.

This is how East Germany worked. You weren't usually harmed for holding non-communist beliefs, but you were blacklisted so that you would never work again.

It's also important to remember that freedom of speech is only protected from the government (which is why your East Germany example is nonsensical). The first admendment says you can stand on a public street corner and yell "God hates Fags" however, if you do so on my property I will remove you.

Mozilla is not a governmental body and (so long as it doesn't violate the protected classes as codified by law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class) can hire and fire people to project whatever image they see fit.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#493

Post by sp332 »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #332
gfodor wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support legalizing gay marriage. But two things, first, supporting prop 8 does not mean you "believe a certain group of people don't deserve to live their lives like others." It means you don't believe that the government should recognize same sex marriages as marriages. There are a large gradient of views here, and on one extreme are the bigots who hate homosexuals and on the other there are people who simply have…

Support for Prop 8 has a huge age gradient, as does anti-homosexuality in general. Support for Prop 8 falls by about 0.75% per year Ages 18-24 voted overwhelmingly against it. 65+ voted overwhelmingly for it. Old people hate gays. Young people don't. Support for Prop 8 among young people in the SF Bay Area is negligible. These are the people Eich was supposed to lead as CEO of Mozilla. You can't lead people who think…

Old people only know gay people as Elton John and Freddie Mercury. Younger people know normal people as gay, so it's no wonder.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#494

Post by rdl »

I think the big takeaway from all this will be an increase in anonymous contributions in politics. We've seen this already at the SuperPAC level (where the goal is mainly to contribute huge amounts of money, more so than anonymity), but this might bring it down to the grassroots contributor.

I'm pretty open about RKBA/2A issues, and donate a small amount of money to things like SAF, but that's not a hugely controversial issue.

Pro-MAPS/LEAP/etc. (ending the drug war) could be controversial, but much less so from the "the drug war is racist and ineffective and should be replaced with harm reduction" perspective, vs. "drugs are great!"

If I were anti-abortion in Silicon Valley, or anti-gay, or anti-immigration, or anything else which were deeply unpopular in the majority of the community, there's no way I'd want any record of my contributions now. In other communities, the inverse views would be criticized.

When the donations aren't tax-deductible, or where the deduction isn't significant, I guess I can see people moving to fully anonymous contributions. Making viral content, anonymous financial contributions, advertising purchases online in small enough amounts that they can be made with throwaway payment instruments and nothing really linking them, etc. Anonymously funding things like an iOS game which happens to include a political message -- is that advertising? etc.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#495

Post by facepalm »

jeremyt wrote: post #429

Well, now, since we've got this all straightened out, let's just do it right the next time. Reply below with your suggestions on what political views will be litmus tests for CEO positions in the future. We can compile a list, and then dig into the next candidate's background to make sure that all of her or his views are within the realm of acceptability. A lot of people just want to apply this to the CEO position, b…

A CEO should be a woman.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#496

Post by twoodfin »

ceejayoz wrote: post #414
twoodfin wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand why he gets a pass: He probably was only publicly against it in 2008 in order to win an election, and when it was politically convenient he had a "change of heart" and has repented. What I can't understand is why anyone who espouses the view that opposition to gay marriage is akin to the most heinous racial bigotry could possibly have voted for Barack Obama in 2008. I'm a pretty reliable GOP voter, b…

Left-leaning folks are going to be gun-shy about third parties for a while. The memories of 2000 with Gore/Nader in Florida aren't fading all that fast.

So there's no view a Democrat could express that wouldn't disqualify him in left-leaning folks' minds? That would be depressing. Winning isn't everything.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#497

Post by gagaga »

xaa wrote: post #431

My father-in-law is a high-level official in the "Alliance Defending Freedom", which is essentially the conservative counterpart to the ACLU, providing legal advice to conservative causes. For years, he's been telling me about the "gay liberal agenda", which, to him, was not just about promoting gay rights, but also about silencing any freedom of speech advocating opposing viewpoints. I always pooh-poohed him and gen…

Should we have been tolerant of racist people in the 50s and 60s? Was being in favor of segregation a viewpoint people should have respected?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#498

Post by clavalle »

wyclif wrote: post #188
sethbannon wrote: post #57

Comments here are pretty supportive of Brendan but I see this as nothing but a victory for Mozilla and a victory for consumer activism. It should be clear by now that you cannot run a large company in the public eye while you espouse vitriolic and discriminatory views that belong in the last century.

Except that he didn't "espouse vitriolic and discrimatory views." A majority of voters in CA pulled the lever for Prop 8. 70% of African-American voters in CA voted "yes" for Prop 8. Doesn't sound discriminatory to me. What it sounds like is political correctness run amok, and punishment for thought crime.

So the majority can't discriminate against a minority?

And those in other minority groups cannot discriminate against a minority?

Is that your argument?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#499

Post by anaphor »

Jtsummers wrote: post #404
anaphor wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know that he donated to these candidates primarily because of their anti-gay rights views anyway? Correlation != causation you know?

We don't, but no correlation would have been made without the Prop 8 donation. That was my point.

Okay fair enough. If your point is that it can be used to argue for more character flaws or whatever then yes, I agree, it can.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#500

Post by yepguy »

mindcrime wrote: post #313
danpalmer wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think 'integrity' in the face of an opinion that is becoming more and more unacceptable to hold in our culture is a good thing. Changing your views, and admitting you were wrong is the best thing you can do.

I don't think 'integrity' in the face of an opinion that is becoming more and more unacceptable to hold in our culture is a good thing. "Unacceptable"? Really? I don't get this mindset. The core premise of a free and open society is that you can hold any opinion you want, no matter how unpopular or "unacceptable". Personally, I absolutely value this kind of integrity. An individual should stand firm to their principl…

I think the people wishing he had changed his mind would have liked it to be because of some dialogue or epiphany he had, rather than just conforming so he can get an impressive title. That's absurd, though. Amidst this PR crisis there's no way he could have changed his opinion in earnest. He could have changed his mind before all this, but if that were the case he should have blogged about it or something long ago.

So I think I agree with you. If he had come out and said he had changed his mind, it would have been a small victory for gay rights at the expense of his own integrity.

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