Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO • Hacker News Board

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#411

Post by stefantalpalaru » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:07 PM UTC

ionforce wrote: post #364

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is irrational to associate a homophobic hate crime with a donation to gay marriage opponents. But that's OK. As long as you can raise a fuss about it you can completely ignore reason and pressure people into resigning.

Why do you expect one side of the argument to adhere to reason when the other side clearly has none? What is the "reason" behind being against marriage equality?

The other side of the argument is: people should not be sacked because of their political opinions, even if I don't agree with them.

I find this a rational and sustainable position. No one should be afraid of losing their job for voicing their opinion in a public debate. No one.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#412

Post by muyuu » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:07 PM UTC

clavalle wrote: post #393

muyuu wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should he apologise if he believes he's in the right? That's just pushing hypocrisy.

I don't think people are advocating for him to apologize while still believing he is correct. I think people are advocating that he reflect on his beliefs, come to a different conclusion than he's held, and then apologize for his past views. It doesn't seem like he is going that route.

Would you change your mind on an issue like this as a result of peer pressure?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#413

Post by matthewmacleod » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:07 PM UTC

viggity wrote: post #322

matthewmacleod wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diversity as a concept cannot legitimately be defined to include intolerance as an attribute to be protected. Swap out "anti-gay-marriage" for "racist" or "anti-semitic" – it would be difficult to argue that calling for the resignation of an active campaigner against racial equality was "anti-diversity"; the same applies here.

I was against prop 8, it was stupid, but people act like it was going to throw members of the LGBT in prison or death camps or something.

I've not seen any evidence of that, and I don't see what your point is. I mean, it did actively strip civil rights from LGBT people, and that's pretty bad…

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#414

Post by ceejayoz » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:07 PM UTC

twoodfin wrote: post #281

andrewpi wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Barack Obama, the President of the US, was against gay marriage in 2008; I'm confused as to why he gets a pass here, but the head of Mozilla doesn't?

I can understand why he gets a pass: He probably was only publicly against it in 2008 in order to win an election, and when it was politically convenient he had a "change of heart" and has repented. What I can't understand is why anyone who espouses the view that opposition to gay marriage is akin to the most heinous racial bigotry could possibly have voted for Barack Obama in 2008. I'm a pretty reliable GOP voter, b…

Left-leaning folks are going to be gun-shy about third parties for a while. The memories of 2000 with Gore/Nader in Florida aren't fading all that fast.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#415

Post by baddox » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:07 PM UTC

ceautery wrote: post #368

matthewmacleod wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

on the other hand we just showed that when a mob on the Internet wants something - they get it. I don't think that this follows. In this particular case, someone was promoted to a role which many felt was incompatible with his personal views; they made that known, and the person in question stepped down. That's kind of how things should work in a community enterprise. That said, I understand he's received wildly disp…

Well, when your partner dies and the State doesn't recognize your marriage, you don't get survivor benefits. It's conceivable to be with a partner for most of your life, and then lose the house you lived in to your partner's bigot family. That's something to feel strongly about. That said, death threats are always disproportional, and I think we can all agree that however you feel about Eich and his contribution, the…

> Well, when your partner dies and the State doesn't recognize your marriage, you don't get survivor benefits.

The lack of survivor benefits is ridiculous. But it is (or could and should be) completely orthogonal to how government defines the term "marriage."

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#416

Post by mef » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:07 PM UTC

BuckRogers wrote: post #378

phillmv wrote: post #14

From the recode recap - http://recode.net/2014/04/03/mozilla-co-founder-brendan-eich... >“It’s clear that Brendan cannot lead Mozilla in this setting,” said Baker, who added that she would not and could not speak for Eich. “The ability to lead — particularly for the CEO — is fundamental to the role and that is not possible here.” The most damning aspect of this was their a) inability to predict this would be an issue…

"""All he had to do was lie and say "I understand how my activities can be seen as divisive and wrong and inconsistent with my commitment to upholding the diverse values underpinning the Mozilla community and I apologize for my behaviour at the time. I will do everything in my power to make up for it and I hope the community can judge me based me on my record from this point onwards".""" He did say that. https://bren…

He did not apologize for his behaviour, he expressed his "sorrow at having caused pain." Quite different.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#417

Post by Beliavsky » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:07 PM UTC

Suppose conservative activists push out a CEO because he contributes to Planned Parenthood or otherwise supports legal abortion. Would the Eich critics be OK with that? Many conservatives believe that stopping abortion is as much about human rights as liberals think gay marriage is. Both sides can play the game of getting people fired for views unrelated to their jobs. It would be better if neither side did.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#418

Post by benched » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:07 PM UTC

Half of the people in this thread are deeply confused about the relationship between civil rights and popular opinion. The latter is a perception of the former, not the cause or definition.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#419

Post by jbooth » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:08 PM UTC

crassus wrote: post #408

HillRat wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's two sides to that -- the first is that, yes, he absolutely has the right to hold any opinion he wants to, no matter how noxious I or others may find them. To paraphrase Hall on Voltaire, I'll defend to the death their right to be assholes. (Full disclosure: pro- gay marriage, anti-Prop 8, not a CA resident, so doesn't really affect me.) On the other hand, there's no absolute right to be a public-facing CEO, a…

This is exactly how opinion worked in East Germany. You didn't have to be a communist, but if you weren't you would never work again. We have the exact same protection for political expression as East Germany. That's freedom? "The Lives of Others" was a warning, not an instruction manual.

Well, at least you didn't mention Hitler.

Mozilla made a business decision that the guy was a liability for a public non-profit. That's capitalism, not totalitarianism.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#420

Post by blisterpeanuts » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:08 PM UTC

thinkpad20 wrote: post #258

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, though, his opinion was supported by the majority in that California election: 7 million to 6.4 million in favor of Prop 8. I guess if they consider any other candidates for CEO from California, they'll have to ask them how they voted.

The majority that voted . Those in favor were more likely to go out and vote than those opposed. Many of the opinion polls showed that more people were opposed, but clearly not enough of them actually went to the ballot. Either way, I'm confident that the same measure today would have a snowball's chance in hell of passage.

That's the way democracy works, though. If about 320,000 more conservative voters had turned out to vote in several swing states in 2012, we'd have a different President in the White House.

That doesn't mean Romney should have won, though. It's the people who turn out to vote who get to decide. If you don't care enough to vote, tough beans!