Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO • Hacker News Board

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#361

Post by crassus » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:00 PM UTC

dopamean wrote: post #131

DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

I generally agree with you but I think the problem here is that being against gay marriage is more than just a "political view." Being for low taxes is a political view. Being for smaller government is a political view. Believing a certain group of people don't deserve to live their lives like other simply because of who they love is not a political view. It reads as extremely hateful and that makes people uncomforta…

Depending on your point of view, legal abortion is either part of a fundamental right for a woman to control her own body or an unprecedented holocaust. Should you have to pick the "right" choice in order to be employed in the tech industry?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#362

Post by malandrew » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:01 PM UTC

Crito wrote: post #252

nostrademons wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line of reasoning is very troubling to me, because 20 years ago it was pretty much unacceptable in the U.S. to hold the opinion that gays were entitled to full legal rights, let alone the ability to marry. That changed only because some very courageous people stuck their neck out, weathered all the flack and negative personal repercussions towards themselves, and gradually made the point of "Why not?" I fully su…

Nobodies' right to have different viewpoints is being taken away. Nobodies' right to donate to political causes is being taken away. The only people in this entire story that were/are trying to take away the rights of others were the people who pushed for Prop 8. The right to support legislation like Prop 8 remains intact. The right to not be criticized by others for doing so has never existed in the first place. The…

I'll tell you what we should do. We shouldn't give those rights to gay people and we should take away those rights from straight people as well. The status quo is a clear discrimination of people who choose not to marry, but may have others in their lives where it would be mutually beneficial to opt into an agreement where they share some of those rights/benefits.

Each one of the rights currently afforded to people in a marriage or civil union should be split up and any two people for whatever reason should be able to opt into some, none or all of those rights.

I'm hoping that one day those pushing for additional rights afforded only to married people, straight or gay, get the exact same treatment that Eich did here.

Marriage shouldn't even be within the purview of the government, only religions.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#363

Post by anaphor » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:01 PM UTC

Jtsummers wrote: post #151

iamthepieman wrote: post #19

Is there anything besides his donation to the Prop 8 effort that led to the controversy and him stepping down?

He supported an anti-gay marriage candidate with campaign contributions. Essentially, if he'd not had the Prop 8 donation, and only the campaign contributions, no one would have made a connection. His donations would've shown that he supported Republican candidates (since he, outside a response to the Prop 8 donation, made no statements regarding gay marriage that anyone ever linked to) and nothing else.

How do you know that he donated to these candidates primarily because of their anti-gay rights views anyway? Correlation != causation you know?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#364

Post by ionforce » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:01 PM UTC

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #325

Borogove wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell that to Matthew Shepard.

It is irrational to associate a homophobic hate crime with a donation to gay marriage opponents. But that's OK. As long as you can raise a fuss about it you can completely ignore reason and pressure people into resigning.

Why do you expect one side of the argument to adhere to reason when the other side clearly has none?

What is the "reason" behind being against marriage equality?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#365

Post by angersock » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:01 PM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #31

Oculus wrote: post #6

I'm not sure how I feel about this one. On the one hand, Brendan Eich had some beliefs that were against Mozilla's core values, but on the other hand we just showed that when a mob on the Internet wants something - they get it. It's scary because this mob has global reach, unlimited power, but isn't always right.

on the other hand we just showed that when a mob on the Internet wants something - they get it. I don't think that this follows. In this particular case, someone was promoted to a role which many felt was incompatible with his personal views; they made that known, and the person in question stepped down. That's kind of how things should work in a community enterprise. That said, I understand he's received wildly disp…

Here's the root of the issue:

"many felt was incompatible with his personal views"

Who all is "many" here? People at Mozilla? People in the tech industry? People who are LGBT? Angry people on the internet with nothing better to do than troll?

People who actually were directly and personally affected by Eich's actions in donating, of which there are quite few compared to the number of people weighing in on this?

It's easy to have an echo-chamber hollering for blood, but let's not pretend that those voices have any automatic credibility.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#366

Post by programminggeek » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:01 PM UTC

"We have employees with a wide diversity of views. Our culture of openness extends to encouraging staff and community to share their beliefs and opinions in public. This is meant to distinguish Mozilla from most organizations and hold us to a higher standard. But this time we failed to listen, to engage, and to be guided by our community."

The irony is when Brendan Eich shared his belief in public, he was forced out of his job. Yay openness. It's really awesome until someone says or believes in something you don't agree with. Then, get the pitchforks.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#367

Post by robbyking » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:01 PM UTC

DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

What if he had supported legislation to ban marriage between people of different races? Would you say that that has absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#368

Post by ceautery » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:01 PM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #31

Oculus wrote: post #6

I'm not sure how I feel about this one. On the one hand, Brendan Eich had some beliefs that were against Mozilla's core values, but on the other hand we just showed that when a mob on the Internet wants something - they get it. It's scary because this mob has global reach, unlimited power, but isn't always right.

on the other hand we just showed that when a mob on the Internet wants something - they get it. I don't think that this follows. In this particular case, someone was promoted to a role which many felt was incompatible with his personal views; they made that known, and the person in question stepped down. That's kind of how things should work in a community enterprise. That said, I understand he's received wildly disp…

Well, when your partner dies and the State doesn't recognize your marriage, you don't get survivor benefits. It's conceivable to be with a partner for most of your life, and then lose the house you lived in to your partner's bigot family. That's something to feel strongly about.

That said, death threats are always disproportional, and I think we can all agree that however you feel about Eich and his contribution, they were uncalled for.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#369

Post by thumbtackthief » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:01 PM UTC

eternalban wrote: post #284

nostrademons wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line of reasoning is very troubling to me, because 20 years ago it was pretty much unacceptable in the U.S. to hold the opinion that gays were entitled to full legal rights, let alone the ability to marry. That changed only because some very courageous people stuck their neck out, weathered all the flack and negative personal repercussions towards themselves, and gradually made the point of "Why not?" I fully su…

> this line of reasoning is very troubling to me .. This entire affair is troubling. This individual's livelihood was affected because of his socio-political views and activities. Your 2nd paragraph correctly underlines the more important issue.

What if had been donating to the KKK instead? Do you think he could accurately represent his employees of color?

Or for a less cut-and-dry example: If he had donated to Pro-Life organizations, would you expect him to be accepted as CEO of Planned Parenthood?

Your socio-political views and activities have consequences. If you believe strongly enough in them, you will weather them. His views and activities certainly had consequences for a lot of California families.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#370

Post by ebbv » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 8:01 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #60

phillmv wrote: post #14

From the recode recap - http://recode.net/2014/04/03/mozilla-co-founder-brendan-eich... >“It’s clear that Brendan cannot lead Mozilla in this setting,” said Baker, who added that she would not and could not speak for Eich. “The ability to lead — particularly for the CEO — is fundamental to the role and that is not possible here.” The most damning aspect of this was their a) inability to predict this would be an issue…

It speaks a lot to his integrity that he didn't. Would you rather have a CEO who says one thing in public and then goes and does another thing surreptitiously, or one who stands up for his beliefs even when they're unpopular?

Integrity is only admirable when you are standing up for what's right.