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Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

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Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#451

Post by [deleted] »

pron wrote: post #444
pervycreeper wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think the comparison is inappropriate Another case in point, it was a counterexample, not a comparison. In your case, I now believe you are primarily just a sloppy/ bad thinker (who is also heavily invested in a certain position), but my original point about emotion clouding judgement still stands.

What is it with the ad-hominem attacks today? I am probably a sloppy thinker and possibly a very bad one, but luckily I've received some very good education, and in this particular case I didn't even need to think at all. I simply informed readers that by modern definitions of sexism, absence of women from places of influence equals sexism (at least somewhere in society if not at a particular workplace). I am certain…

[deleted]

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#452

Post by hnriot »

qdog wrote: post #214
hnriot wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty odd for women to be hula hooping, I've never seen that, but Julia's reaction to is is bananas. How does that make her feel threatened? Can't she just ignore it, of course men are going to look, did the women think nobody would notice? To me this belittles any legitimate claim she might have, if she's this irrational about this event, then it clouds my view of other things she says. She also sounds confuse…

So, if you hula hoop in public you are asking to be ogled? Was she asking for it? Was she asking nice? Yeah, she was asking for it Did she ask you twice? - "Asking For It" Courtney Love and Eric Erlandson "We had just gotten off tour with Mudhoney, and I decided to stage-dive. I was wearing a dress and I didn't realize what I was engendering in the audience. It was a huge audience and they were kind of going ape-shit…

If anyone starts hula hooping at my office they will surely attract a lot of attention because it's just not something people do at work (YMMV)

I didn't say she was asking for anything, I said her credibility is weakened by her reaction to this. Try it, get any two people at your workplace to hula hoop and see if people come and watch, gawk or whatever word you want to call it.

And why quote Courtney Love at me, that's about as ridiculous as quoting Germaine Greer in response. What did CL think would happen when she jumped off stage? She of all people understands human sexuality, and was exploiting it. She says the big smile was her pretending it was happening, however, there are a million other interpretations. If I jump into a hungry lion's den do I complain when I get eaten? Ask yourself why CL is says it wasn't rape and then it was, she's a very astute woman and knows exactly how to exploit the attention she garners, because she sure as hell is a lousy singer.

Hula hooping doesn't look like stripping, any which way you want to spin it, so given that she has her normality barometer so poorly calibrated, how can we believe much else she says without applying the same thought process?

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#453

Post by pron »

Karn wrote: post #418
pron wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OMG. Were you found in the woods and raised by a fraternity at a state college? Your knowledge of sexuality in humans (particularly in women), gender roles and gender pressures is so lacking that I fear some gross negligence on the part of your parents. You, buddy, deserve a good spanking by your mother, and then you'd be well served by reading a book or two on human sexuality and sociology. Keeping some better femal…

Yes, despite the mind-bogglingly clueless questions you asked in your previous post, I'm the one whose knowledge is lacking. Yes, women like form fitting clothes, you know, as in tailored clothes? Perhaps the women you work with are all sexless drones who wear hoodies and sweatpants and expect the same from men, but at my workplace the women are fit, attractive, and dress well. And they always appreciate a compliment…

If Freud had known you, he wouldn't have written Civilization and its Discontents. Even Hemingway could have learned a lesson or two.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#454

Post by danbmil99 »

danbmil99 wrote: post #215
tomjakubowski wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This narrows down the choices: the "founder" who is the cause for all this drama is either PJ Hyett or Tom Preston-Werner. https://twitter.com/tpdubs2/status/415224900782014464 > TheresaPrestonWerner @tpdubs2 > Found the best, most comfortable chair at GitHub HQ. Office seems pretty empty today. Among several other tweets here: https://twitter.com/search?q=github%20from%3Atpdubs2&src=typ...

> Found the best, most comfortable chair at GitHub HQ. Office seems pretty empty today. Hey, this chair seems to be facing that bitch Julie. Imagine that. Now I can give her the evil eye for 8 hours straight!

jeez, HN is so damn humorless.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#455

Post by dominotw »

pron wrote: post #366
aceperry wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"People: when did our brains melt and spill out of our ears?" When the topic is as controversial as sexism in tech and the workplace. Or whatever the flashpoint happens to be at the moment. Like sequoia, I've noticed that controversial topics brings out the most incredible responses from both sides, and often with very little definitive evidence. To me, this is a sign of how deeply felt this topic is, and how much it…

It is sad that some people dispute the existence of sexism in tech, but that does not make it controversial in the sense that it is contentious, because it isn't. The facts are simple: 1) technology is a big source of power in our society, and 2) women are underrepresented in tech. Whenever a well defined group of people is absent from (or underrepresented in) a source of power, discrimination is taking place, period…

>women are underrepresented in tech. Whenever a well defined group of people is absent from (or underrepresented in) a source of power, discrimination is taking place, period.

3,000 us army deaths in Iraq, and of those, 2,938 were men, 62 were women.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#456

Post by sockgrant »

ceol wrote: post #308
sockgrant wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it implies a work environment where it is ok to sexually objectify your co-workers (or that seems to be how she took it) What? This is a case where two people did something unusual in a work environment and garnered the attention of their coworkers. That's expected. It's unexpected that you think it necessarily implies sexual objectification. Go stand in the middle of your office tomorrow and hoola hoop. Whatever s…

> This is a case where two people did something unusual in a work environment and garnered the attention of their coworkers. That's expected. Did this ever say it was in their office? All it said was they were hula-hooping to some music and the response from the bench-full of male employees was embarrassing. If it were outdoors, it wouldn't be unusual. Either way, in what world do you see something out of the ordinar…

> Either way, in what world do you see something out of the ordinary — but not strange — happening at work and line up to gawk at it?

Congratulations, you've decided to not look at out of the ordinary things for fear of implications of sexual objectification.

But me -- if weird stuff happens in or outside of my office, I'm gonna watch.

> It's certainly possible for a bench-full of 20-something programmers to sexually objectify someone

My last comment said "I'm not saying it Wasn't sexual objectification,"

> Julie was made to feel uncomfortable, and since she's the best eye witness to the event we've got, there's no reason to doubt her testimony

The number of witnesses has no bearing on the truth, validity or bias of the statement given by one witness.

> You don't need to stick up for them

I'm not. I'm saying it's too early for those of you championing Julie to get your pitchforks out.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#458

Post by Karn »

pron wrote: post #453
Karn wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, despite the mind-bogglingly clueless questions you asked in your previous post, I'm the one whose knowledge is lacking. Yes, women like form fitting clothes, you know, as in tailored clothes? Perhaps the women you work with are all sexless drones who wear hoodies and sweatpants and expect the same from men, but at my workplace the women are fit, attractive, and dress well. And they always appreciate a compliment…

If Freud had known you, he wouldn't have written Civilization and its Discontents . Even Hemingway could have learned a lesson or two.

That's right, if they had known me they'd have been much less pessimistic, neurotic and depressive. Freud would have written:

Civilization: Some Losers Are Still Discontent

The Interpretation of Dreams: Nobody Cares

Sometimes a Cigar is Just a Cigar, and It's Not Always About Your Mother

Hemingway would have written:

A Farewell to Small Arms: Ladies Love Big Biceps

The Long Happy Life of Francis Macomber After He Met Karn and Stopped Being a Loser

The Snows of Aspen: My Life as a Ski Instructor

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#459

Post by zimbatm »

dominotw wrote: post #455
pron wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is sad that some people dispute the existence of sexism in tech, but that does not make it controversial in the sense that it is contentious, because it isn't. The facts are simple: 1) technology is a big source of power in our society, and 2) women are underrepresented in tech. Whenever a well defined group of people is absent from (or underrepresented in) a source of power, discrimination is taking place, period…

>women are underrepresented in tech. Whenever a well defined group of people is absent from (or underrepresented in) a source of power, discrimination is taking place, period. 3,000 us army deaths in Iraq, and of those, 2,938 were men, 62 were women.

yes, men are less careful ?

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#460

Post by antihero »

ketralnis wrote: post #249

I don't see how this is any of our business. Is HN a gossip rag? Because otherwise this is just two indirect blobs of hearsay directed at each other.

Because it involves an important issue within our industry, and how a major company is dealing with it.
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