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Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

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Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#361

Post by h1karu »

xupybd wrote: post #186
h1karu wrote: post #114

Julie was banging a co-worker so why is she acting surprised when drama happened ? I don't get it.

I don't think it's fair to point to her relationship as the cause of this. I also think that, referring to her relationship as "banging a co-worker", may be an example of the kind of behaviour that creates an uncomfortable atmosphere for women in I.T.

She was engaging in a personal relationship with the founder's spouse as well as a sexual relationship with a coworker. How is that not asking for jealousy related drama ? Does it really matter how that drama eventually manifests ? I don't think so.

I'm just trying to hold her to the same standards that a male would be held to.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#362

Post by hrktb »

freshfunk wrote: post #314
hrktb wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This statement has more meaning that you are willing to concede. If they are starting now to investigate, it means that when troubles were occuring, or even when Julia H. gave her demission, they didn't care enough to investigate thoroughly (perhaps they have other priorities, that's just a fact). This in itself is not good looking, and I feel that from there whatever really happened, they won't have the full version…

Hogwash. Companies always say they will open an investigation. In the least, it buys a little time for the story to die down and the next big stories to hit the media cycle.

Well, there is a lot of praise on cleverness of the statement, but I think people are pretty used to PR talk now. If the best they have now is a promise of an investigation, that's not the same as a "we are fully investigating the issue" (which I think is the most standard way to handle this kind of situation. Even if really nothing is done, stating that the investigation is ongoing is an easier stance.

Also, people might forget about the issue in 6 months, but the bad taste in the mouth we have now will stay attached to the brand. The best move IMO would be to come 'clean' as soon as possible, and let the hype die down from there, provided they are OK with doing the right thing, whatever it might be.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#363

Post by Myrmornis »

SolarNet wrote: post #265
balls187 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if they weren't gawking, but instead watching? If you are hula hooping out in the open, I don't think it's fair to expect people to look away, no more than it is to expect people to look away if you were playing the hula hoop minigame in Wii Fit. Gawking and making people feel uncomfortable = bad. Watching coworkers make fools of themselves = priceless. > You are basically advocating the position of countries th…

Your first point is valid. It depends on what actually happened. But the OP's comment: "As for the hula hooping... you're telling me that two women hula hooping to music in the workplace is perfectly appropriate, but when the other people nearby (who are going to be mostly males if the majority of employees are male - go figure) suddenly notice, that's the inappropriate part? Really?". Is the part that bothered me, t…

Is the part that bothered me, they are implying that the inappropriate part is the women hoola hooping. The logic there that I have a problem with is that it's the women's fault for being attractive, and that the man isn't at as much fault for being attracted to it because the women are doing something attractive.

What are you even talking about? People find each other attractive. Most commonly between sexes. It happens in workplaces. Get over it.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#364

Post by mcv »

trhway wrote: post #80
leccine wrote: post #13

Well Julie's story stinks. Let me just quote the last thigs she wrote and work backwards from that. "Two women, one of whom I work with and adore, and a friend of hers were hula hooping to some music. I didn’t have a problem with this. What I did have a problem with is the line of men sitting on one bench facing the hoopers and gawking at them. It looked like something out of a strip club. When I brought this up to m…

>What I did have a problem with is the line of men sitting on one bench facing the hoopers and gawking at them. and what would be an alternative? "A man mustn't look at a hula-hooping woman. " (what would be a punishment for the violation? - something from middle ages Arab world comes to mind, a definite cure for the desire to watch hula-hooping women :)

There's a difference between looking and turning into entertainment.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#365

Post by [deleted] »

freshfunk wrote: post #317
ceol wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GitHub's response neither confirms nor denies any part of the story. Well, they do say: We know we have to take action and have begun a full investigation. While that’s ongoing, and effective immediately, the relevant founder has been put on leave, as has the referenced GitHub engineer. The founder’s wife discussed in the media reports has never had hiring or firing power at GitHub and will no longer be permitted i…

Yup. This, to me, is a partial admission of guilt. Why else would they take such harsh, immediate action to throw him under the bus?

[deleted]

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#366

Post by pron »

aceperry wrote: post #303
sequoia wrote: post #248

When I arrived at this thread, comment two was 'using the information available in the short techcrunch article, I'm now going to PROVE, point by point, how Horvath's claims are false.' Comment three was 'aha they issued a vague apology, this is basically a FULL ADMISSION that everything Horvath said was true!' People: when did our brains melt and spill out of our ears? There is not enough public information present…

"People: when did our brains melt and spill out of our ears?" When the topic is as controversial as sexism in tech and the workplace. Or whatever the flashpoint happens to be at the moment. Like sequoia, I've noticed that controversial topics brings out the most incredible responses from both sides, and often with very little definitive evidence. To me, this is a sign of how deeply felt this topic is, and how much it…

It is sad that some people dispute the existence of sexism in tech, but that does not make it controversial in the sense that it is contentious, because it isn't. The facts are simple: 1) technology is a big source of power in our society, and 2) women are underrepresented in tech. Whenever a well defined group of people is absent from (or underrepresented in) a source of power, discrimination is taking place, period. Sexism, like racism, is a loaded word, and people often believe that malice is required for it to exist, but that is not the case. Whether sexism begins in kindergarten or in mens-club startups is, at this point, secondary. It is there and we must address it.

In the case of GitHub specifically, the issue is even clearer. This is a company that for years had a blog with little else than their drinking escapades. Perhaps that's changed, but the burden of proof is on them.

The only thing that is up for dispute is whether this particular case is an example of sexism in tech or not. We can't be 100% sure, but at this time it's safer to assume that the weaker party is right, if only because the stronger party can handle a quick-to-judge public much more easily than the weaker party. I'm not saying it's boycott time, but it's best to at least open the discussion with that assumption in mind. Again, the burden of proof is on GitHub.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#368

Post by Tobu »

peterjancelis wrote: post #14

They are lucky it's not the CEO-founder. Easier to put a non-CEO on leave than a CEO I imagine.

They have swapped hats two months ago (acknowledging an earlier change):

https://github.com/blog/1761-new-year-new-ceo-for-github

I'm not terribly clear on US company governance and GitHub is atypical, so mojombo's new role is a bit fuzzy to me.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#369

Post by Karn »

SolarNet wrote: post #345
Karn wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I'm saying it's perfectly OK to "spend a prolonged time watching it". If women are doing something that involves a lot of pelvic gyrations, then yes, it is absolutely understandable AND acceptable that men will stare. It's not the men turning them into "sex objects" or whatever, the women already did that. And it's healthy, and normal, and most red-blooded men and women not only find it acceptable, they enjoy it.…

Do you have a source for the "at a party" part? The majority of my comments have been predicated that this was in a work environment. The Horvath techcrunch article states "at the office". More to the point: Yes because women moving their hips means they automatically want to be considered for their sexual characteristics. /sarcasm Admittedly, if this was at a party and they were hula hooping then sure no problem at…

> Do you have a source

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7408466

> Yes because women moving their hips means they automatically want to be considered for their sexual characteristics. /sarcasm

Actually, yes, they do. If you don't know this then either you're very inexperienced with women or you're the kind of guy they willingly keep in the dark about what they want.

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