Earlier quoted context omitted.
This "feminism can be anything" stance is getting really old, is it really everything good and nothing bad?
Oh, I’m so very sorry that you have to do a tiny bit more work and find out specifically what someone stands for before you can coherently argue against them instead of slapping the feminist label on it and being done with it. First, I would suggest that when you attack feminism in the abstract, you attack views that are actually currently and widely held by feminists. It’s a diverse movement, but there are actual ma…
Update on Julie Horvath's Departure
401–410 of 473 posts
Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure
#402I just don't see much good coming from putting this in the open like this. Sue them then do the book deal or tc article
Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure
#403I'm going to sound *ist... You know how this is solved? Seriously? If you are abused, violated, made to feel uncomfortable, intimidated, etc... Write it down, gather evidence, gather some witnesses and then hire a lawyer and start suing. Go after the vc if it's a start up and the founders are involved... That's how we got seat belts... I just don't see much good coming from putting this in the open like this. Sue the…
If it was your company, surely you'd want them to try and solve it internally first?
Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure
#404Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Do you have a source https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7408466 > Yes because women moving their hips means they automatically want to be considered for their sexual characteristics. /sarcasm Actually, yes, they do. If you don't know this then either you're very inexperienced with women or you're the kind of guy they willingly keep in the dark about what they want.
You're obviously an expert anthropologist and psychologist, so perhaps you can explain why is it that women find the need to flaunt their "sexual characteristic" at a workplace party (or any party for that matter)? Is this behavior common among women of all cultures? Has it been common throughout the ages? Is it a result of women's peculiar biology or perhaps of another mysterious dynamics? Is this practice commonly…
> why is it that women find the need to flaunt their "sexual characteristic" at a workplace party (or any party for that matter)?
Women, men, children - everyone likes attention. The best kind of attention for a sexually mature person is sexual attention from a person that they desire. To display yourself at your best and be appreciated by someone you like is one of the best feelings there is. Not that you would know anything about that, the best feeling you've had was while watching "pron".
> Is this behavior common among women of all cultures?
Yes (duh). In fact, it is also pervasive among animals and even insects. I know, I know, who'd have thought?
> Has it been common throughout the ages?
Yes (duh).
> Is it a result of women's peculiar biology or perhaps of another mysterious dynamics?
Only someone who calls themselves "pron" would think this is in any way peculiar. To not desire attention from the opposite sex (let's leave homosexuals out of this for now) would be extremely peculiar.
> Is this practice commonly regarded as pleasant among human females?
See answer #1. Being appreciated feels good. People like to feel good. You do the math, genius.
> And what is it exactly that they want if they hope to achieve it with this colorful behavior
Anything ranging from the momentary pleasure of being appreciated, to finding somebody to love and spend the rest of their life with.
> I once heard that human females may want a stable male partner to help rear their young;
You haven't heard the half of it, son. What human females ideally want is a man who will provide the best genes for their offspring and be the best provider. Such a combination being rather rare, often females try to secure a gene-donor and provider separately. Typically, maladjusted men like you, who are, to put it kindly, not attractive to women, end up in the role of provider, and the desirable men get to have their offspring raised by the clueless providers.
> is this "hula-hooping at a party" the best evolutionary strategy to obtain that goal?
Replace "hula-hooping at a party" with "showcasing their assets" and even you should be able to figure it out. Push up bras, high heels, corsets, hoop skirts, dancing, anything that tends to attract the attention of the opposite sex, helps to attract the best mate possible.
Any further questions? Although I don't even know why I'm trying at this point. Something about horses and water comes to mind.
EDIT to answer the question you added later:
> Also, males of lesser species often display their buttocks prominently to attract females. Is this accepted behavior among humans, too?
As a matter of fact, women love muscular legs and buttocks on a man. The far more common "massive upper body, scrawny legs" physique isn't nearly as attractive to women. Strong legs are an excellent indicator of overall strength and good genes; in many primitive tribes, people explicitly desire "strong legs" in a mate. Even in older English literature you'll often find statements like "the lines of his/her legs showed good breeding" and so on.
Displaying the bare buttocks would normally get a man put in jail, so not in public, no. However, many men do the second-best thing by wearing form-fitting clothing. And women love it. Not too tight, though, that tends to attract the wrong kind of attention.
> Is it common practice at GitHub?
I seriously doubt whether anyone at GitHub does the kind of training necessary to build strong legs and glutes, so I doubt it. However, you can see this behaviour on display in other environments, like the gym, the beach, etc.
Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure
#405First of all, the main theme that resonates with me is that no company is immune to these things no matter how much "special" or "different" they are.
At this point, I don't completely accept everything Horvath is saying nor do I believe what she is saying is all lies. The truth as is always the case is never black and white. What I do accept is that there is definitely serious issues that need to be taken a look at that have been brought up.
Github did not need to respond and I believe they responded quite well. There response cannot be point by point rebuttal or a statement of denial.
It's a measured response stating that they are taking action to look into the issues. Putting a founder on leave is a major decision and sends the message to Github's employees and the rest of the community that they are taking this seriously. My takeaway from the response was recognition that Horvath's assertions are with weight and they will not shy away from investigation.
There is no doubt that Horvath's assertions have made Github deal with this. Having a founder be involved would likely have swept all of this under the rug.
I commend Horath's for speaking out. I am certain it wasn't an easy decision and very painful.
I also commend Github for having the CEO write this response instead of hiding behind a shield of legalese.
I do believe something will come out from this for the positive. There are too many great people within Github that do not need to be there that will now have an opportunity to take a reality check and assess for themselves Horvath's claims and drive for change.
The founder may be the most in the hot seat. Github may use this as the "last straw" of many straws that may have been already bulging at the camel's back to exit the founder.
Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure
#406Earlier quoted context omitted.
> People: when did our brains melt and spill out of our ears? Classic case of confirmation bias.
Classic case? confirmation bias? I would have called it an opinion, and an emotionally charged appeal to reason, but not any form of confirmation bias. Would you accuse scientists of confirmation bias if they chose to look for more evidence rather than just publish the results of the first experiment?
Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure
#407Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm under the impression that GitHub has moved away from campfire and uses their own custom chat system [1]: https://twitter.com/holman/status/444642237456998400
That's probably a custom client for Campfire (right underneath the screenshot[1] they say it's Campfire). [1]: http://zachholman.com/posts/github-communication/ (first screenshot)
Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure
#408Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're obviously an expert anthropologist and psychologist, so perhaps you can explain why is it that women find the need to flaunt their "sexual characteristic" at a workplace party (or any party for that matter)? Is this behavior common among women of all cultures? Has it been common throughout the ages? Is it a result of women's peculiar biology or perhaps of another mysterious dynamics? Is this practice commonly…
I see the wilfully-clueless are out in force on this one. I really thought your questions weren't serious, as to normal people these things are self-evident by age 15. However, seeing as how you identify yourself with "pron", I realised you're serious and you actually don't have a clue about these things. All right, I've had too much caffeine today and I'm feeling generous, so here goes: > why is it that women find t…
Your answers to the questions are actually quite wrong. Women flaunting sexual characteristics in a professional environment is neither common today, nor has it been common in the West throughout the ages. You clearly confuse sexual desire with when and how people pursue it, you are completely blind to social pressure, and unaware of the nuances of sex (most importantly you're confusing sex with sexuality). I fear that if you don't get that long due spanking soon you have some serious lawsuits awaiting you in the future, and possibly some jail time, especially if you keep taking sexual cues from insects.
Perhaps it may seem baffling to your juvenile mind, but I adopted my screen name over twenty years ago, well before the internet, and back when it was just my acronym and had no other uses whatsoever.
Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure
#409Earlier quoted context omitted.
> GitHub's response neither confirms nor denies any part of the story. Well, they do say: We know we have to take action and have begun a full investigation. While that’s ongoing, and effective immediately, the relevant founder has been put on leave, as has the referenced GitHub engineer. The founder’s wife discussed in the media reports has never had hiring or firing power at GitHub and will no longer be permitted i…
Yup. This, to me, is a partial admission of guilt. Why else would they take such harsh, immediate action to throw him under the bus?
Of course it can also mean the opposite - my point is merely that suspending someone pending investigation says nothing at all about guilt.
Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure
#410Ms. Horvath's act of taking this directly to the press was obviously intended to inflict the maximum possible harm on Github and is, in itself, unprofessional and harms her credibility. The right way for her to have handled this would have been to document everything , and then resign and sue them without fanfare. Nobody wins when dirty laundry is aired.
It is also easier for her to go public than to try to sue a billion dollar company, and have to be involved in a lawsuit for years. Nobody wants that hassle.
Bullies are able to operate because people keep quiet. Going public is often the best way to defeat a bully. The founder, his wife, and the employee who ripped out her code never thought the general public would know about the things they did. If they did, they would never have done them.