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Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

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Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#901

Post by hugs »

psykotic wrote: post #380
sgentle wrote: post #235

Ouch. What a terrible situation. I'm holding out for the other side of the story, but unless you're willing to assume the entire thing is invented this is a major fuckup for GitHub. I think this is a classic problem with companies making the transition from small startup to regular business. Break down the barriers! Flat management! Kill bureaucracy and embrace no-politics DIY organisation! The article reads like an…

> I mean, someone reverting your code because of a personal vendetta? I laughed out loud when I read this and several other specific details in the story. It sounded very familiar. I have several friends and many acquaintances who work at Valve. One very senior engineer initially worked on Source 2 about three years ago but had to quickly switch projects because another, more tenured engineer was expressing his disag…

"I'm waiting for a hip rebranding of the term 'management'..."

Easy, just start calling managers "people hackers" and launch a people hacking tips blog next week.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#902

Post by krick »

kaitai wrote: post #895
maxcan wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The wife, and the husband (founder), have displayed an incredible lack of professionalism here. That assumes that the story, as told in the accusation, is completely accurate. One could envision a scenario where the founder felt his wife may be able to relate to the situation better and could actually assist the accuser. However, in spite of best intentions, its possible that the wife's actions were misinterpreted…

Professionalism would dictate that the wife not be involved even if this is the case. I don't go tell my husband's nurses that ... well, anything! What business do I have with my husband's colleagues other than being polite at the summer barbecue and the holiday party?

It may be arguable, but for me non-company member being somehow related to company business is not only acceptable, but actually very nice. Being family member of the founder is reason enough to care about company, and I'd prefer informal atmosphere where people can help with business just because they care to that formal bureaucratic atmosphere that is common in banks. That's were wives come to pretty boring holidays parties and politely chuckle about boring jokes. Ugh.

Of course that doesn't include "accessing private chats of company members", but for that reason the more I read about that story the less I believe "the victim".

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#903

Post by josephcooney »

thefreeman wrote: post #438
iwasphone wrote: post #19

> Horvath then told her partner, also a GitHub employee... Protip: don't dip your pen in the company ink.

I was getting really confused by all the uses of "partner". Is she a lesbian is that it? I would they could just say girlfriend so I would know what was going on.

How is it relevant to the story?

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#904

Post by krick »

drawkbox wrote: post #899
glibgil wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love github, but toxic cultures can happen anywhere. Github employees have been involved in commit abuse since the beginning https://web.archive.org/web/20130117043748/http://sheddingbi...

You've gotta love Zed A. Shaw, he is an entertaining truth cannon (and a great programmer).

Somehow I cannot find a single part of him I could love.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#905

Post by stalcottsmith »

yawz wrote: post #254
yeukhon wrote: post #183

There seems to be several problems. Not entirely sexism. 1. Founder's wife asked Horvath out and gave her a lecture about who is the boss. Probably out of jealousy. 2. Founder's wife physically inanimate Horvath, making her unwelcome and scared. 3. Founder did not stop the wife and protect his wife. 4. Horvath was approached by a male co-worker and according to her her rejection had caused tension between her and tha…

>While the founder is right about avoiding dating someone in your own company This is one of my pet peeves. This is a professional setting and the employees are not 13. They should be mature enough to be able to handle their personal lives without bans or frown upons. Someone can't handle rejection? Who says he/she can handle criticism? What about disagreements? To me this is a personality problem that should be deal…

In my observation, when opposite-sex dating occurs between coworkers in all but the largest enterprises where contact cannot be avoided after a breakup, one or the other employee will end up leaving -- usually the person with lower status or value. Even if they tie the knot, you may find one or the other partner wanting to work "somewhere else."

As a manager, you should be prepared for this eventuality once you become aware of the activity. It is unreasonable to forbid all dating since many happy marriages were established between people who met in the workplace. It is reasonable to let people know that they may face dismissal if their dating issues enter the workplace and prove a distraction for themselves or others.

On a practical level managers wish to avoid unnecessary turnover or drama in the workplace. Knowing that employee dating will almost inevitably lead to one or both of these things, I understand the "frown upon" aspect. The employees themselves should be adult enough to know that they are gambling with their jobs.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#906

Post by skyebook »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #665
skyebook wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GitHub uses campfire, but HipChat does not give any way for a account owners/admins to read personal 1-1 chat logs.

Hipchat user/admin; agreed. I don't have access to 1 on 1 chat logs and I prefer it that way.

Same exact situation for me, definitely don't want to be reading anyone else's chats or for there to be any concern that someone might be listening in.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#907

Post by krick »

buro9 wrote: post #443
Pacabel wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why was it so critical to spell it "dialog", rather than "dialogue", as the higher-ups in the project apparently preferred?

It wasn't, there was no business justification for it at all. He just invented a rule "all names and variables must be in UK English".

It's completely OK to have such a rule, your behavior is much more disturbing. It doesn't really matter if you use UK or US english, but you should use one and that must be pressured from above. If project standard is UK you use UK, not what you like.

Quitting because of that is just stupid. In my company CS rules are almost opposite to my preferences (and to common style for that language community of course). I use every opportunity to grumble about it, but it would be much worse if everybody (me included) shaped the code based on personal preferences, not style guide.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#908

Post by drawkbox »

krick wrote: post #904
drawkbox wrote: post #899

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've gotta love Zed A. Shaw, he is an entertaining truth cannon (and a great programmer).

Somehow I cannot find a single part of him I could love.

How about these books: http://programming-motherfucker.com/become.html

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#909

Post by nilkn »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #729
chanux wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, as a male, try to avoid staring at another female because I fear someone like Horvath accuses me of sexism. This is, sadly, the best thing to do because you don't know who is going to take offense. PS: To avoid looking one-sided and narrow (which I believe I'm not) I really feel bad about this whole situation and the lady who had to go through that. Personally liked a github as a company.

> This is, sadly, the best thing to do because you don't know who is going to take offense. I know you mean well, but your sadness to me belies some ignorance about what it's like to be a woman working in a male dominated field. You'd like to live in a world where you can casually watch beautiful people doing beautiful things. I don't begrudge you that, and I wouldn't accuse you of sexism. That said, I have zero inte…

According to this comment:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7408466

it was at a party, with many non-Githubbers in attendance, and the onlookers were not only guys.

So basically the article's description may be totally inaccurate.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#910

Post by hippoman »

josephcooney wrote: post #903
thefreeman wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was getting really confused by all the uses of "partner". Is she a lesbian is that it? I would they could just say girlfriend so I would know what was going on.

How is it relevant to the story?

It's a gossipy story involving sexual attraction. How isn't it relevant? If you feel it's none of your business, then the whole story is none of your business either.
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