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Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

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Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#381
post #337
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You put those words in my mouth, buddy. To clarify, social ineptitude combined with a degree of self-assured narcissism, resulting in a total disregard for the opinions of other people which don't jive with the most "logical" worldview. It's possible to be socially introverted and still considerate to other people.

You don't think classifying the vast majority of this readership as victim-blaming sexists would qualify as slightly inconsiderate?

Not the readership - assuming similar statistics to reddit, the vast majority don't comment, so we can't know - but it's certainly reasonable to draw that conclusion about the commenters from the comments on majority of threads regarding social issues.

Of course, there's a feedback loop in that people won't comment where the majority seem to disagree heavily with their morals, so that doesn't help with what threads like these look like. The sheer amount of personal attacks against people who disagree with victim-blaming views of this in this thread serve as a warning not to speak up.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#382
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Dropped the ball" ?!?!!??!?!?! This is so far beyond inappropriate. If it is even 10% true then there are serious organisational problems at that company. I am gobsmacked that people are leaping to downplay these accusations, without knowing anything about it.

Well it's not really his responsibility. It's the wife's, then HR's, then the police's job. And in most matters that don't involve anyone actually dying I think 'dropped the ball' is perfectly acceptable.

Maybe not technically, but he is a founder and I think he should take some responsibility. The wife's power came from his position in the company, and she was able to get away with that only because she was his wife. If my partner was coming into the office and intimidating employees at my company that is something we'd be having serious conversations about the minute I heard out about it. Of course I also like to think I wouldn't marry a psychopath, but that's neither here nor there, because if I left something like this for HR to deal with I'd feel like an impotent twit.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#383
post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow, furtive glances doesn't come across much better.

Try getting sternly lectured for 10 minutes because because you held the door open for a stranger to be polite. That's when you know shit gotten real. For the record, I routinely hold open doors for people that I know are behind me and are leaving/entering a building. It surprised me to know end to get yelled at for it.

I had that happen, so I laughed. Then she got really angry... doesn't stop me, though. I hold the door for everyone, because it's polite, not because someone is whatever gender.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#384
post #169

If you are one of the people in this thread jumping to defend GitHub in this situation, ask yourself why. GitHub are perfectly capable of defending themselves. They are the group in power here. Second-guessing the motives and truth of this woman's story does nothing but undermine her, and undermine the confidence of others who may have similar stories (at GitHub or elsewhere).

So whoever has less money is always in the right?

Nope. But when an individual claims to have been wronged by a large organization they should receive the benefit of the doubt.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#385

Ouch. What a terrible situation. I'm holding out for the other side of the story, but unless you're willing to assume the entire thing is invented this is a major fuckup for GitHub. I think this is a classic problem with companies making the transition from small startup to regular business. Break down the barriers! Flat management! Kill bureaucracy and embrace no-politics DIY organisation! The article reads like an…

I've always been broadly under the impression that the HR department was a waste of air, but I suppose conflict resolution is perhaps something they'd be useful for. ...maybe.

HR, legal, finance and IT are all unpopular for the same reason: it's part of their job to stop you doing things that may get the company in trouble later.

Of course, this means they may be at times too conservative in the interests of having an easy life. Doesn't mean they're not useful at all.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#386
post #249
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, as a male, try to avoid staring at another female because I fear someone like Horvath accuses me of sexism. This is, sadly, the best thing to do because you don't know who is going to take offense. PS: To avoid looking one-sided and narrow (which I believe I'm not) I really feel bad about this whole situation and the lady who had to go through that. Personally liked a github as a company.

And I, as a male, try not to stare at anybody because I'm not a fucking asshole.

Perhaps they liked it, I would even say it's the most likely variant.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#387
post #247

There seems to be several problems. Not entirely sexism. 1. Founder's wife asked Horvath out and gave her a lecture about who is the boss. Probably out of jealousy. 2. Founder's wife physically inanimate Horvath, making her unwelcome and scared. 3. Founder did not stop the wife and protect his wife. 4. Horvath was approached by a male co-worker and according to her her rejection had caused tension between her and tha…

To clarify for many of you, you don't need someone shouting "I HATE WOMEN" for sexism to be occurring. The sexism in this scenario is subtle and persistent, something that likely tainted all of the workplace interactions at github, allowing a female employee's problems at work to be continually ignored. This eventually built up to the issue most people are focusing on, a founders spouse being allowed to harass an emp…

Perhaps they liked being stared at as eyecandy.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#388

Hmmm. Here's my 2 cents. Every office has "that person" who causes/gets involved in drama, starts pointless arguments, or refuses to cooperate. Let's assume, just for entertainment' sake, that she got bored of working there, and asked herself, what looks better on my resume? Worked at GitHub, got bored/wanted a higher salary/wanted to do less work, left... or worked at GitHub and got bullied out of the marketplace fo…

> How are we supposed to assess the validity of this woman's claims?

One source of information is data available about her past behavior, or reputation, or etc - unbalanced people hardly ever go off the deep end in the blink of an eye or out of the blue (unless they have abrain tumor or something like that, but that situation is rare compared to the majority of cases). As an example, let me explain my story: I got hired to build a website, somehow I turned into quasi-employee #1 / acting CTO. The main reason I was the ONLY employee for this B2B startup for 4 years was that the founders have anti-social personality disorders (the CEO is a full blown sociopath, which I can prove in court as I have the evidence) - the other founder merely has a criminal record for fraud. The wife of the CEO turned out to be a psychotically manipulative bitch...

But I didn't know any of this when the whole company got started and the CEO was an acquaintance of someone I've worked with for over a decade. I made some mistakes, and got sucked up into the work - I finally realized the full nature of the situation when the CEO was caught blatantly lying to customers in order to make the sale (and expecting the customers to have zero recourse when they figured it out... dumbass) - the entire company was nothing but a hobby for a rich man and they were out to exploit everyone they could.

Anyway the point is, my friend FINALLY admitted he knew there was something wrong with this guy and told me stories about his behavior when they worked together. From the stories, it was crystal clear this guy had significant psychological issues aka no ethics and everything fell into place with me realizing he truly is a sociopath. This was 30 YEARS ago... and other data I'd gotten from the CEO about his other business and the shady shit he'd pulled then... If my friend had just told me all this data at the beginning (he didn't want to "spread gossip" even though he knew it was true) I would have never taken the job.

The record of people's behavior doesn't get lost in some black hole. That is one of the purposes of gossip within a community - to spread info that can't be disseminated normally due to social constraints or niceties. I am reminded now as well of that 'developer evangelist' who flipped out at some conference claiming that people behind her were being sexist even though the joke they told amongst themselves wasn't about here and she wasn't even part of the group. She had a history of being a nutcase (aka 'sensitive') as well, so given that, her complaints about sexism were quite unfounded.

But does the woman in this situation have such a history? I don't know. I don't think so otherwise it'd be in this thread. And given my experience with lunatics, her story seems quite plausible - and that fact she tried to leave it all behind by moving on says a lot - if she was the out of control one, she, logically, would have an general attitude of 'entitlement' and entitled people always like to create drama because that is one way to gain and keep control. So her side is far more plausible and internally and externally consistent than anything I think the other side (GitHub) is going to be able to produce.

I would myself be shouting from the rooftops about this sociopath and how this company is a threat to their customers and employees, but I can't figure out how to break the NDA. There is no contract anymore as they deliberately breached that... I realized I was dealing with experienced criminals who have been twisting the law to their advantage for their entire business life... so they undoubtedly will sue me into oblivion given a chance. That is how fundamentally evil they are. So I stay quiet and brood.

But this woman has no constraints like that and I support her fully because shit like this needs to exposed for the good of all - people like this founder's wife who are not stopped only gain more and more experience in being manipulative and entitled and 30 years from now, she will be even more evil. If anyone who dealt with the people I did before me had made an effort to stop them in some way, then I (and everyone after me) wouldn't have had to suffer at their hands. Again, if I had the money for lawyers, I'd risk it, but given the nervous breakdown I had because of these people, I'm not up for it - YET. When the NDA expires, I will be spreading their name across the entire Internet.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#389
post #53

As usual, another HN thread that perfectly exemplifies victim blaming and a collective burying of heads in the sand. There's a few people on here who seem to get it, but most don't. I'm sick of it. Goodbye, Hacker News.

This should be the top comment. As long as sexism persists in the tech industry, it's going to drive women out and keep others away.

It could be a top comment on reddit. Here, we (me in particular, and I think several other posters as well) prefer thoughtful discussion over emotional overreaction.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#390
post #194

I'm not entirely sure the hula-hooping incident - merely observing girls hula hooping is not a crime, is it? - by itself constitutes a hostile atmosphere for women, unless inappropriate comments were being made. What we have here is some completely inappropriate, cloak and dagger, soap opera shit being perpetrated by the wife of the cofounder, who has no business meddling in the affairs of his employees. (If true, th…

Yeah, I found that to be the oddest part; that after so much bullshit, that was the last straw. It was almost too anti-climatic of an ending to this sexism/crazy-founder/wife tale. Agreed though, completely 100% justified in getting out of that shit, glad the story got told as well.

The "last straw" literally means a last small thing, FYI.
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