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Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

dish.andrewsullivan.com

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Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#91

Post by josephlord »

intslack wrote: post #29

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/03/05/220273/senate-staffers... >Congressional aides involved in preparing the Senate Intelligence Committee’s unreleased study of the CIA’s secret interrogation and detention program walked out of the spy agency’s fortress-like headquarters with classified documents that the CIA contended they weren’t authorized to have, McClatchy has learned. >After the CIA confronted the panel in Ja…

>“I’m going to try to make sure I don’t spill anything on my tie,” he responded.

I don't get what that means or adds to the story. Is he ignoring the question? Dismissing the question? Didn't hear the question? Or so stunned by the allegation he just sprayed soup across the table? Or is it something I've missed?

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#92

Post by lotsofmangos »

jtfrench wrote: post #59
atmosx wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If this is indeed true, then it would mean that the US political system ( which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally ) [...]. Come again?! Where did this come from, Hollywood?

just look around you. Surely I'm not the first person to mention this concept to you. I'm not saying I believe that the US has the best example of democracy, but true or not, that's the general story being "sold" on the news (and yes, in movies as well).

The news and movies are lying to you. This is not a common view across the world.

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#93

Post by lotsofmangos »

res0nat0r wrote: post #84
josephlord wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fact that so many people don't understand the point you were making probably means you didn't make the point clearly enough. If you has said "is regarded by Americans as ..." you would have been clear. As it is your comment gives another impression.

He probably is getting tired (as I am) of all of the comments on HN anymore that American government is the worst that has ever been present on planet earth, because the NSA (a spy agency) has been caught spying (their mandate). If one would ease up on the constant "the government of the USA is literally Hitler" nonsense a bit, maybe more productive talk could occur.

You are now just making shit up wholesale.

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#94

Post by tripzilch »

jtfrench wrote: post #60
galois17 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"[US political system] which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally" err, what? As a foreigner living in the US for the last 5 years I will tell you this: The US political system is regarded as the best example of democracy, by they Americans only. Period. Having lived and traveled in Europe for the most part of my 30 years of my adult life I have heard no person having this perception of the American…

You (and many others) are having a knee-jerk reaction to what I said. I'm not saying that the US has the best example of democracy (and based on the rest of my post, you would think that would have come across). What I am saying is that there is a widespread public perception that "America knows best" — the news supports this, Hollywood supports this, and yes, loads of people around the globe support this notion as w…

Tons of electronics and silly throwaway gadgets we have in the EU are produced in China. I guess that must mean we endorse and envy their political system as well.

Ridiculous conflation of politics, culture, economy and military.

Talking shit about US politics isn't just because it's "the cool thing to do", it's also because US politics is kinda shit, and it does affect us over here as well. And apparently all American people are so very helpless to do anything about it, even your president ...

> did you know that French Fries aren't actually from France?

yes, because nobody calls them French Fries outside the US and McDonald's :)

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#95

Post by res0nat0r »

josephlord wrote: post #88
res0nat0r wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He probably is getting tired (as I am) of all of the comments on HN anymore that American government is the worst that has ever been present on planet earth, because the NSA (a spy agency) has been caught spying (their mandate). If one would ease up on the constant "the government of the USA is literally Hitler" nonsense a bit, maybe more productive talk could occur.

My comment said nothing about the actual position only the fact that the point he was trying to express wasn't clear (previous poster had to follow up to at least three posts to explain it again and I wouldn't have understood the meaning without the follow ups). I wouldn't have commented but for the fact the follow up was blaming others for not understanding rather than accepting the lack of clarity in the post. I do…

> Now the standard is "not as bad as China" which is a sad state of affairs and isn't enough to have moral authority in the world.[2]

I think this goes to what I'm talking about. Not as bad as China? That executes businessmen who are found to be doing corrupt things, systemic forced children policies, wholesale censorship, and the great firewall...Just going on FoxNews half of the Republican party is calling Obama a weak leader and questioning his authority in the Senate daily, this would never happen in China.

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#96

Post by cookiecaper »

vidarh wrote: post #74
cookiecaper wrote: post #64

This just in: spy organization spies on important national political figures. Did you guys never hear of intelligence agencies before Snowden leaked his docs? This is normal and expected. It's the reason intelligence agencies and spies exist. They're supposed to spy on the most important people in the world, and make sure that the important people don't plan anything the agency's employers may consider ... untoward.

> They're supposed to spy on the most important people in the world, and make sure that the important people don't plan anything the agency's employers may consider ... untoward. Except of course for the part where the CIA is explicitly legally barred from domestic US spying, and where they were spying on their employers. Am I surprised? No, not at all. I'm from Norway. Most people would probably consider Norway less…

Are their employers the Congress or the American citizenry? Spying on Congresspersons on behalf of the American citizenry makes sense. Congresspersons have very sensitive access, very special privileges, and very substantial influence. If one of these Congresspersons were to go rogue and cooperate with a terroristic unit, which is not too far-fetched in the day of the Tea Party, the results could be catastrophic both to the government's ability to function and to American cultural heritage. It completely makes sense for an intel agency to spy on persons that have that type of capacity, regardless of title or location.

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#97

Post by vidarh »

cookiecaper wrote: post #96
vidarh wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're supposed to spy on the most important people in the world, and make sure that the important people don't plan anything the agency's employers may consider ... untoward. Except of course for the part where the CIA is explicitly legally barred from domestic US spying, and where they were spying on their employers. Am I surprised? No, not at all. I'm from Norway. Most people would probably consider Norway less…

Are their employers the Congress or the American citizenry? Spying on Congresspersons on behalf of the American citizenry makes sense. Congresspersons have very sensitive access, very special privileges, and very substantial influence. If one of these Congresspersons were to go rogue and cooperate with a terroristic unit, which is not too far-fetched in the day of the Tea Party, the results could be catastrophic both…

> Are their employers the Congress or the American citizenry?

Congress. They were created by an act of Congress, and the only ones with oversight powers are the intelligence committee that they spied on.

> Spying on Congresspersons on behalf of the American citizenry makes sense.

Except it is explicitly illegal for them to do so. The same act that authorised the creation of the CIA - the National Security Act 1947 - also bars them from domestic spying. Anyone tasking the CIA to do so have at the very least participated in a crime, whether or not they can be charged with anything.

> If one of these Congresspersons were to go rogue and cooperate with a terroristic unit

That being so, that would fall under the remit of the FBI, Department of Homeland Security or - in the case they communicate about this with foreign interests - the NSA (!). Only if they were to do something stupid like attend in-person meetings outside US borders would it fall under the remit of the CIA, or even be legal for the CIA to pursue.

> It completely makes sense for an intel agency to spy on persons that have that type of capacity, regardless of title or location.

Not when they are barred by law from doing so, it is the responsibility of other agencies if any, and the persons they spy on are the very people tasked with providing the checks and balances against the CIA going rogue. And in fact, in this very case they were explicitly investigating claims that the CIA had committed gross violations of human rights. In that case there's a massive conflict of interest - the CIA has every reason to want to minimise their findings, and possibly even to try to strongarm them into silence.

And in fact, the CIA has repeatedly made public statements to try to discredit this report - that in itself is shocking to the extreme; in any other organizations, heads would be rolling if a department started a PR campaign against a board committee, which is the closest equivalence.

And do I have to remind you that the CIA has decades of history of horrific operations behind them, including the illegal overthrow of multiple democratically elected leaders, a long range of assassinations, dealing drugs to fund illegal operations, and more, - they've proven time and time again that they badly need more oversight. When was the last time a member of the intelligence committee went rogue again?

Well, unless you count the times they were complicit in illegal CIA cover-ups, that is.

Re: Yes, The CIA Spied On Congress

#98

Post by sentientmachine »

prutschman wrote: post #52
protomyth wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be the FBI, as the military cannot be used for internal policing functions.

The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurrection_Act might apply in that case.

But couldn't such an act be repealed as "enabling the terrorists" and be rendered inert?
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