Russia approves use of military in Ukraine • Hacker News Board

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#131

Post by cosud » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 5:04 PM UTC

a-priori wrote: post #101

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> different language (Russian, not Moldovan) The official language of the Republic of Moldova is Romanian[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Moldova

Yes, but many people in Moldova call the language they speak 'Moldovan', even if it's only subtly different from Romanian. When given the option in a 2004 census, 60% of the population chose 'Moldovan' as their native language, compared to 16.5% who chose 'Romanian'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_language

Sure, they can call it however they want. Technically they're the same language. There are only minor lexicographical differences, the grammar being roughly the same. Blame Stalin for the confusion.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#132

Post by afterburner » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 5:05 PM UTC

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #121

firstOrder wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Crimea was part of Russia until 1954. there is a very large Russian military base there. In 1992 the Ukrainian government ceded that the Crimea was almost completely autonomous of Ukraine. How is Russia invading when it already has a massive military base there, in the Crimea, which was Russian until 1954?

Crimea is legally, according to international law and recognized by everyone but Russia, part of Ukraine. You mean Crimea was part of the RSFSR until 1954, not the Russian Federation.

Being legalistic in this circumstance ignores what Crimea means to Russia, and how the majority of Crimea is ethnically Russian. The background of the region matters for realizing how much Russia cares about Crimea, and therefore how to deal with it in this situation.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#133

Post by wismer » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 5:06 PM UTC

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #124

wismer wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commenter may have implied they were troops of the Russian Army, but did not outright say it. Since these few hundred are mercenaries (might as well call them that, not 'private contractors'), they are still an extension of a sovereign nations armed forces.

Yep, just like Blackwater, etc were an extension of American might in Iraq. Unless the parent wants to go down teh path of saying that American PMCs in Iraq had nothing to do with American might and power?

I don't think the parent commenter was implying that, either. At the face of it, it is simply minor quibbling over details.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#134

Post by k-mcgrady » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 5:06 PM UTC

lmg643 wrote: post #75

From what I gather, Obama has some of the same foreign policy advisors as Bush did. We are pursuing some backdoor strategy to get Ukraine to join the EU. The democratically elected president chose to ally with Russia instead, because Russia offered them more. We set up riots over there, and he flees the capital. The leader is declared to be deposed, and now a leader friendly to the west can take over. Russia can't st…

By spewing conspiracy theories like this you're taking away from the sacrifices a lot of people have made in Ukraine in order to campaign for what they believe is right. I'm not denying that the US and EU have an interest in the outcome of this but people don't give their lives for something they don't believe in. Please take your tin foil hat nonsense elsewhere.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#135

Post by iaskwhy » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 5:06 PM UTC

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #117

iaskwhy wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kosovo seems a much better example although I don't understand why NATO was able to enter the war against the wishes of Russia. Maybe nothing major happened because Serbia was sort of a Russian puppet state instead of being Russia itself? Or the lack of interesting resources in Kosovo? I have some remembering to do. By the way, while reading about Kosovo's history yesterday, I noticed how beautiful Pristina's Nationa…

Unless you subscribe to an extreme pan Slavophilism, in which the Balkans are legally and morally Russian territory, then no, Russia had nothing to say in the Balkans.

Not Russian territory but under Soviet (and then Russian) influence. No?

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#136

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 5:06 PM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #111

lmg643 wrote: post #75

From what I gather, Obama has some of the same foreign policy advisors as Bush did. We are pursuing some backdoor strategy to get Ukraine to join the EU. The democratically elected president chose to ally with Russia instead, because Russia offered them more. We set up riots over there, and he flees the capital. The leader is declared to be deposed, and now a leader friendly to the west can take over. Russia can't st…

That's some pile of bullshit. Who are "we" that set up the riots? Those people stayed there since November, with wide popular support, risking life and limb. It is unbelievably obtuse to echo Kremlin propaganda that those were but the agents of US State Department. One has to be either exceptionally ignorant or exceptionally motivated to find a way to blame America to believe this canard. >>> Question is - who is the…

[deleted]

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#137

Post by rjzzleep » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 5:07 PM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #111

lmg643 wrote: post #75

From what I gather, Obama has some of the same foreign policy advisors as Bush did. We are pursuing some backdoor strategy to get Ukraine to join the EU. The democratically elected president chose to ally with Russia instead, because Russia offered them more. We set up riots over there, and he flees the capital. The leader is declared to be deposed, and now a leader friendly to the west can take over. Russia can't st…

That's some pile of bullshit. Who are "we" that set up the riots? Those people stayed there since November, with wide popular support, risking life and limb. It is unbelievably obtuse to echo Kremlin propaganda that those were but the agents of US State Department. One has to be either exceptionally ignorant or exceptionally motivated to find a way to blame America to believe this canard. >>> Question is - who is the…

>>> propaganda, as long as it matches your prejudices of America being the root of all evil.

>>> believing propaganda spouted by an authoritarian dictator

>>> ambitions for territorial conquest is not the surest way to achieve peace!

wow dude, take a chill pill. how about you abide by what you're preaching? the us has military bases in more than 150 foreign countries

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#138

Post by afterburner » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 5:08 PM UTC

cwaniak wrote: post #92

visakanv wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly can Obama do, though? Anybody have any clear ideas?

This dude never knows what to do. That's the problem. With Bush as a President Putin just wouldn't dare.

Do you remember this actual war Russia fought and won during Bush's tenure? Didn't think so. The US's forces were tied down in Afghanistan and Iraq during that time, Putin had even more leeway than he does now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Georgia_war

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#139

Post by ZanyProgrammer » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 5:08 PM UTC

iaskwhy wrote: post #74

hepek wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing happened in Serbia in 1999. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo Only in this case it was NATO who invaded, and it is viewed quite differently from the western media then what parents have cited. The worst thing in world today is to become the rope on which the imperial forces tug to prove their strength.

Kosovo seems a much better example although I don't understand why NATO was able to enter the war against the wishes of Russia. Maybe nothing major happened because Serbia was sort of a Russian puppet state instead of being Russia itself? Or the lack of interesting resources in Kosovo? I have some remembering to do. By the way, while reading about Kosovo's history yesterday, I noticed how beautiful Pristina's Nationa…

Sarajevo was also a beautiful city until the Orthodox Serbs destroyed it.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#140

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 5:09 PM UTC

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #121

firstOrder wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Crimea was part of Russia until 1954. there is a very large Russian military base there. In 1992 the Ukrainian government ceded that the Crimea was almost completely autonomous of Ukraine. How is Russia invading when it already has a massive military base there, in the Crimea, which was Russian until 1954?

Crimea is legally, according to international law and recognized by everyone but Russia, part of Ukraine. You mean Crimea was part of the RSFSR until 1954, not the Russian Federation.

[deleted]