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Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

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Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#121

Post by ZanyProgrammer »

firstOrder wrote: post #114
ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed. Name those advisors. Every country in teh world recognizes Crimea as being Ukraine. Russia has just announced its invading that.

The Crimea was part of Russia until 1954. there is a very large Russian military base there. In 1992 the Ukrainian government ceded that the Crimea was almost completely autonomous of Ukraine. How is Russia invading when it already has a massive military base there, in the Crimea, which was Russian until 1954?

Crimea is legally, according to international law and recognized by everyone but Russia, part of Ukraine. You mean Crimea was part of the RSFSR until 1954, not the Russian Federation.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#122

Post by wismer »

vonmoltke wrote: post #76
ck2 wrote: post #24

The scariest part of all of this is the 6000 mystery troops that showed up without any logos on their uniforms or carriers or tanks. They took over the border, airport, etc. without any identification, simply guns to insist "do as we say". They even blocked the coast guard from leaving their ports. Which means they had this kind of force all prepared. Can you imagine if US troops showed up somewhere in huge numbers w…

They are not Russian troops. They are Russian private contractors: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/28/exclusive-r... Also, there are only several hundred of them. The 6,000 you are referring to are troops the Russians brought in yesterday. These troops are not appearing "with all identification hidden".

The commenter may have implied they were troops of the Russian Army, but did not outright say it. Since these few hundred are mercenaries (might as well call them that, not 'private contractors'), they are still an extension of a sovereign nations armed forces.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#123

Post by ZanyProgrammer »

crudbuster wrote: post #116
visakanv wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly can Obama do, though? Anybody have any clear ideas?

Obama is about to be pawnd by Putin. This is going to make him look extremely weak. If I was on his national security team, I would push for an immediate no-fly zone in Syria. Then, in March, when the Ukraine dissolves into 2 separate countries via referendum, the US will at least have gained something from Russia's blundering.

Pawnd? WTF? So, Obama is an imperialist if he sends in troops or supports the Ukrainian government (and there's zero chance of the former happening) or he's a dunce who gets pawnd by Putin? Seems like you've been suckered in by the cult of tough guy macho Putin.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#124

Post by ZanyProgrammer »

wismer wrote: post #122
vonmoltke wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not Russian troops. They are Russian private contractors: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/28/exclusive-r... Also, there are only several hundred of them. The 6,000 you are referring to are troops the Russians brought in yesterday. These troops are not appearing "with all identification hidden".

The commenter may have implied they were troops of the Russian Army, but did not outright say it. Since these few hundred are mercenaries (might as well call them that, not 'private contractors'), they are still an extension of a sovereign nations armed forces.

Yep, just like Blackwater, etc were an extension of American might in Iraq. Unless the parent wants to go down teh path of saying that American PMCs in Iraq had nothing to do with American might and power?

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#125

Post by smsm42 »

yardie wrote: post #16

It's a crazy situation all around. Russia has a military base in the Ukraine, in Crimea. If Cuba had a modern day revolution would the US not send in troops to Guantanamo? Would we be in the wrong for doing so? Even if the interim government was more US friendly?

There's a difference between sending troops to Guantanamo Bay military base and sending troops to take control of Guantanamo province.

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#126

Post by terranstyler »

pron wrote: post #95
lmg643 wrote: post #75

From what I gather, Obama has some of the same foreign policy advisors as Bush did. We are pursuing some backdoor strategy to get Ukraine to join the EU. The democratically elected president chose to ally with Russia instead, because Russia offered them more. We set up riots over there, and he flees the capital. The leader is declared to be deposed, and now a leader friendly to the west can take over. Russia can't st…

"We set up riots over there": Who? How? I don't know much about this conflict, but neither Russia nor the Ukraine are democracies in the Western sense of the word. I've been to Ukraine once. It felt like the Wild West only without the code of honor you see in the movies.

Last time I checked I didn't see any democracy in the Western sense of the word in the western world. Except for Switzerland maybe

Examples:

Tapping phones without warrant

Searching homes without without warrant

A policy of guilty until proven innocent

Torture

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#127

Post by lotsofmangos »

firstOrder wrote: post #107
lmg643 wrote: post #75

From what I gather, Obama has some of the same foreign policy advisors as Bush did. We are pursuing some backdoor strategy to get Ukraine to join the EU. The democratically elected president chose to ally with Russia instead, because Russia offered them more. We set up riots over there, and he flees the capital. The leader is declared to be deposed, and now a leader friendly to the west can take over. Russia can't st…

> We set up riots there Just looking at pictures of what was going on in Kiev, it was fairly obvious. Nothing is going on and suddenly thousands of people are bussed into Kiev. Large video screens are set up and professional placards are distributed. Of course the always tell-tale English language signs of the "we want freedom" type. It does not generate an effect of the type desired so they up the amount of violence…

If they are neo-nazis, why are ex-IDF jews fighting for them?

As platoon leader, Delta says he takes orders from activists connected to Svoboda, an ultra-nationalist party that has been frequently accused of anti-Semitism and whose members have been said to have had key positions in organizing the opposition protests.

“I don’t belong [to Svoboda], but I take orders from their team. They know I’m Israeli, Jewish and an ex-IDF soldier. They call me ‘brother,’” he said. “What they’re saying about Svoboda is exaggerated, I know this for a fact. I don’t like them because they’re inconsistent, not because of [any] anti-Semitism issue.”

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.577114

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#128

Post by ankitml »

pron wrote: post #95
lmg643 wrote: post #75

From what I gather, Obama has some of the same foreign policy advisors as Bush did. We are pursuing some backdoor strategy to get Ukraine to join the EU. The democratically elected president chose to ally with Russia instead, because Russia offered them more. We set up riots over there, and he flees the capital. The leader is declared to be deposed, and now a leader friendly to the west can take over. Russia can't st…

"We set up riots over there": Who? How? I don't know much about this conflict, but neither Russia nor the Ukraine are democracies in the Western sense of the word. I've been to Ukraine once. It felt like the Wild West only without the code of honor you see in the movies.

Why are they supposed to adhere to gold standard of western democracy? America seriously needs a reality check. Why such supreme belief in american(western) way of liberty. Rest of the world doesnt kill innocents in drones, guantanamo, libya, iraq ...

Re: Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

#130

Post by danmaz74 »

aquadrop wrote: post #115
danmaz74 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently, troops are already there though.

There's naval base in Sevastopol with permanent troops.

Yes, but from what I read Russian troops are deployed outside those bases, around the government palaces. I just hope this ends well (even if I couldn't define what "well" could mean here).
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