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What is really happening in Ukraine

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Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#261

Post by aestra »

lhgaghl wrote: post #121

Can't watch any of the videos linked because youtube asks me to sign in to prove my age. And to sign up, it asks for cell phone number to send an SMS to verify. Perhaps because I use tor. Anyone have a usable source? If you have the viewtube greasemonkey plugin, you can download the video from youtube and upload it somewhere else (e.g mediafire, zippyshare). Would be good if someone does that.

In the video link, where it says www.youtube.com/blahblahblha just replace the youtube.com part with pwnyoutube.com and leave the rest of the link the same. So this new link will be www.pwnyoutube.com/blahblahblha From there there's a few links to watch the video without logging in - clean viewer or loop or full page or to download the video.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#262

Post by elohesra »

strlen wrote: post #250
elohesra wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we please drop this 'mansplaining' bullshit? It's as offensive as referring to feelings of being othered as 'girlfeeling'. These kinds of sordid, petty, gendered derogations have no place on HN. There is literally no need for an insultingly sexist synonym for 'patronizing', when 'patronizing' already exists as a less offensive (and better understood) equivalent. It's a shame really, because you've clearly taken t…

I see what you're you're trying to say, but as a man (who was introduced to this term by a girlfriend who caught me 'splaining myself) I personally find the term to be both hilarious and -- most importantly to -- somewhat more explicit in what it is (explaining away while lacking context) as opposed to the term patronizing. Then again English is not my native language, so perhaps I'm reading the word "patronizing" to…

I can see that you clearly meant no harm, but the problem with the term is that it creates divide between men and women where there need not be one. It attempts to gender the concept of being clueless and patronizing solely with men. For this reason, it is clearly sexist, and I'm uncomfortable with sexist language being bandied around.

I fail to see what good can ever come of using language that would cause division among people, when there are other ways of communicating the same concept just as effectively. Of course, speech should remain free and should you wish to use the word then that should be your right, but use it knowing that -- for people like me -- it not only offends, but immediately lessens your credibility.

EDIT: Sorry, that comes off as a little hostile, but that word pissed me off. Still, you don't deserve any particular rage since your explanation shows you clearly meant nothing by it and didn't realize it'd offend.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#263

Post by memracom »

mitchelllc wrote: post #27
stargazer-3 wrote: post #7

This is much more informative and complete than any Western media news report. (Disclosure: I grew up in Kiev)

Yanukovich refused to sign EU association in November. I am wondering if the EU association was approved by most of Ukrainian through voting (or other ways), and Yanukovich disobeyed the voting results.

How could anyone understand the implications of all of this well enough to make any kind of approval decision, for or against?

[http://eeas.europa.eu/ukraine/assoagreement/assoagreement-20...]

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#264

Post by nate_meurer »

tptacek wrote: post #187
ash wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about (4) trial in absentia? Is it possible under US laws?

A trial in absentia would have been preferable to a fiat killing, but the end result would have been the same. The US had no means of apprehending al-Awlaki because he had situated himself in a war zone controlled by AQAP. The trial would have concluded, and the US would have faced the same 3 choices. You make a good point, but not one that fundamentally changed the options on the ground.

With all due respect Thomas, you have completely missed the point. The executive branch (Bush and Obama both) have taken unto themselves the roles of judge and jury. This doctrine says that president alone gets to decide the definition of "war", the location of the "war zone", and the guilt of the presumptive defendants. No trial needed. And the penalty is death.

That this particular case seems obvious to you, should not be reason enough for you to accept the whole doctrine.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#266

Post by Aoyagi »

solyanyk wrote: post #232
Aoyagi wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, thanks, but I already knew that. That's why I'm disappointed to see so biased 'article' at the top of HN today. As for the last line: It matters because most popular media I've seen portray them as peaceful activists that are beaten by vicious police commandos armed with assault rifles and grenades. And I'll resent violence no matter who it comes from, but I guess it's the easiest way to get attention, huh? Not…

When the government controls all the power, including judicial system, refuses to acknowledge peaceful demonstrations for months, and then swiftly passes the law which pretty much outlaws protest (including, by the way, over the internet), how exactly are you going to arrange that "open transparent referendum" you are talking about?

I used third conditional for a reason.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#267

Post by strlen »

darkbot wrote: post #251
strlen wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, I am not Ukranian, nor Russian. Also I don't support either side. I think either regime is equally corrupted. I am sorry, but as an ethnically Jewish, Belarusian-born, Russian-speaker residing in US, I have to say what you're engaging in is the equivalent of "mansplaining" (EDIT: or "patronizing" if you prefer). To wit, on my Facebook, the only person who is presently in Ukraine (who attended school and a unive…

> It is very much in Russia's interest to make sure ultra-nationalists become the dominant party in this Honest question: How is this in Russia's interest? The paramilitary UNA­-UNSO helped fighting the Russian military in both the Abkhazian and the Chechnya conflicts, according to their own account.

For the same reason David Duke winning the Republican primary would be in Democrats' interest and for the same interest Russia's Duma includes very few liberals but lots of communists and "red-browns". Given a choice between corrupt pro-Russian parties and ultra-nationalists/un-reformed communists/fascists/etc..., vast majority of Ukranians would vote for pro-Russian parties ("lesser of the two evils").

Think logically: if you're a corrupt stooge, would you rather run a less corrupt stooge (I don't have any illusions here -- Yuschenko/Timoshenko/Klichko are no saints, they are just better than the alternative) or against an ultranationalist?

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#268

Post by ommunist »

zxcdw wrote: post #237
ommunist wrote: post #86

OK, lets also discuss Iran, Syria, Israel vs Palestine and all other bloody conflicts here. Is this political forum or what? With regard to Ukraine, I have a message to "protesters". Lads, instead of getting 30EUR per day of "protest", do some real coding for the benefit of your society.

I challenge everyone to read your past comments and reflect this one with the fact that you're Russian. Now it would be a good time to stop your nationalistic dishonesty, when politics and people as human beings are against your views.

Dude, I am Soviet engineer. I remember times when we called each other brothers. Kiev is mother of Russian urban culture. Do not mix politics with code and you will be all right.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#269

Post by mbq »

viraptor wrote: post #170
mbq wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland already shares a border with Russia, so it doesn't matter. The support for the revolution seems mostly to come from a sort of post-collonial thinking that Ukrainians will praise Poles as saviours and the former sea-to-sea glory of the Polish Empire will be reinstituted. How naive, sadly.

With one barely significant part - yes it does. In most conversations that border is basically ignored. I'm talking about what impression people have about the Ukraine situation. Also, I've honestly never heard the idea of praise to the saviours before. Mostly it's just the memory of Russia and any government control they impose having terrible results. Noone seriously thinks about the Polish Empire anymore. Or at le…

My observation is that only crazy people are seriously afraid of Russians, while the spirit of patronising Ukraine, Belarus and even Lithuania is pretty strong.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#270

Post by strlen »

dimitar wrote: post #212
shitgoose wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you dare to go to Lvov these days and speak Russian there, your native language?

I have been to Lviv and its perfectly OK to use Russian or any other language for that matter. You can often even hear Russian pop hits on the streets. I think this misconception stems from the fact that Ukrainian speakers often reply in Ukrainian when spoken to in Russian, because they assume you know both languages, but they will switch to Russian if necessary. This freaks out Russian speakers from outside of Ukrai…

> I think this misconception stems from the fact that Ukrainian speakers often reply in Ukrainian when spoken to in Russian, because they assume you know both languages, but they will switch to Russian if necessary. This freaks out Russian speakers from outside of Ukraine.

This is interesting way to think of it. Since I'm from Belarus and visited Ukraine a few times, I thought absolutely nothing of this. I even remember going to a Polish-owned cafe in Minsk where the owners spoke Polish, but customers spoke Russian. In Belarus children were taught Belarusian from kindergarten on and while Belarusian language, literature, and history classes were in Belarusian -- other classes were in Russian. Afaik, some of the Belarusian writers (can't remember if Yakub Kolas, Yanka Kupala or both...) even changed languages within their books: within the same story, some characters spoke Russian others spoke Belarusian. Of course Ukrainian speakers form a much larger part of population of Ukraine than Belarusian speakers in Belarus (Belarusian seems to be heading the way of Irish Gaelic, unfortunately).

It helps that the languages are in the same language group. In any case, other European countries deal with this all the time (Flemish and French are much further apart for example than Russian and Ukranian). I can't see how joining the EU would make this worse for anyone!

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