Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What is really happening in Ukraine

slideshare.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 324 posts

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#181

Post by Demiurge »

Ygg2 wrote: post #104
Demiurge wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't expect it to look like anything else. I think this violence is terrible, and counterproductive to any non-anarchist cause, such as joining EU. I want these people to go home...

You can't protest from your home... There is a reason all demonstration happen in public. That is because if everyone is in house they aren't sure if the other people are satisfied or poltrons or ready to cause a change. Also don't tell me you can protest with your vote when government is ready to falsify those.

I'm only against violence and attacking police, not peaceful protests or civil disobedience. At this point, going home is the only way to get out of a situation that turned violent.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#182

Post by jjcc »

darkbot wrote: post #157

Wow, some this is some epic propaganda. Closer to truth is that this is more a coup-d'etat by the Ukrainian fascist paramilitary. The liberal Ukrainian opposition has been chased out of greater parts of the Maidan square and is now in control of "Right Sector", a loosely based umbrella coalition between various fascist and nazi organisations and parties. These extremist wants to ignite a civil war to "cleanse Ukraine…

Here are a couple of links that support your opinion. Unfortunately most people here might not be aware that western media is quite biased.

http://orientalreview.org/2014/01/24/coup-in-western-ukraine...

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2014/01/libya-syria-and-now-ukr...

Dear fellow hackers, media is "The Matrix" regardless it's from democratic western countries , or Russia, China, North Korea. Ironically most western people believe they have know more truth because their journalists are independent. It's quite deceptive.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#183

Post by barrkel »

tptacek wrote: post #165
D9u wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about drone strikes which target and kill a US citizen and his teenage son?

I shouldn't indulge these unproductive subthreads, but I have mild nerd autism and am easily trolled. It's my experience that people who bring up Anwar al-Awlaki and his son --- particularly when using the term "US citizen" in the same breath --- rarely know anything specific about what actually happened. To start with, al-Awlaki and his son Abdulrahman weren't killed together, but at separate times. Abdulrahman was…

The USG chose the option that killed the fewest innocent civilians.

That is an enormously presumptive statement that you're not qualified to assert. It's so big I'm fairly sure it's wrong; the probability is very much against it. Tens of thousands of innocent civilians have been killed in "preemptive" wars the US started post 9/11.

Even taking US air strikes alone, the kind of operations that the US has been engaged in radicalizes people, and they'll be motivated for decades to come.

The only way your statement approaches truth could be if you assume that only US civilians matter, but even then I don't think it'll be true in the long term.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#185

Post by cLeEOGPw »

darkbot wrote: post #157

Wow, some this is some epic propaganda. Closer to truth is that this is more a coup-d'etat by the Ukrainian fascist paramilitary. The liberal Ukrainian opposition has been chased out of greater parts of the Maidan square and is now in control of "Right Sector", a loosely based umbrella coalition between various fascist and nazi organisations and parties. These extremist wants to ignite a civil war to "cleanse Ukraine…

Just a heads up for those not accustomed to Russian propaganda - in Russia and neighbor countries Russia wages a massive propaganda war against EU and currently it's largest target is EuroMaidan. Their purpose is to put as much dirt on the protesters as possible. The propaganda is especially active in internet comments and forums. They often make long and semi written in advance post with link to Russian government controlled sources to sound more legitimate.

Source: I am from a country neighbor to Russia.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#186

Post by shitgoose »

vdaniuk wrote: post #162
darkbot wrote: post #157

Wow, some this is some epic propaganda. Closer to truth is that this is more a coup-d'etat by the Ukrainian fascist paramilitary. The liberal Ukrainian opposition has been chased out of greater parts of the Maidan square and is now in control of "Right Sector", a loosely based umbrella coalition between various fascist and nazi organisations and parties. These extremist wants to ignite a civil war to "cleanse Ukraine…

As a Russian speaking Ukrainian, participating in protests, living in Kiev that considers this quote by Albert Einstein to be very true "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind", you are so full of shit.

Would you dare to go to Lvov these days and speak Russian there, your native language?

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#187

Post by tptacek »

ash wrote: post #180
tptacek wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I shouldn't indulge these unproductive subthreads, but I have mild nerd autism and am easily trolled. It's my experience that people who bring up Anwar al-Awlaki and his son --- particularly when using the term "US citizen" in the same breath --- rarely know anything specific about what actually happened. To start with, al-Awlaki and his son Abdulrahman weren't killed together, but at separate times. Abdulrahman was…

What about (4) trial in absentia? Is it possible under US laws?

A trial in absentia would have been preferable to a fiat killing, but the end result would have been the same. The US had no means of apprehending al-Awlaki because he had situated himself in a war zone controlled by AQAP. The trial would have concluded, and the US would have faced the same 3 choices.

You make a good point, but not one that fundamentally changed the options on the ground.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#188

Post by mercurial »

darkbot wrote: post #157

Wow, some this is some epic propaganda. Closer to truth is that this is more a coup-d'etat by the Ukrainian fascist paramilitary. The liberal Ukrainian opposition has been chased out of greater parts of the Maidan square and is now in control of "Right Sector", a loosely based umbrella coalition between various fascist and nazi organisations and parties. These extremist wants to ignite a civil war to "cleanse Ukraine…

Your sources don't support your narrative. What they are claiming is that you have a presence of violent right-wing elements among the protesters, in some non-determinate numbers, and that they are organized. Point taken. G8 demonstrations features Black Block elements with depressing regularity. Are G8 demonstrations also an attempt at a coup by Black Block supporters?

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#189

Post by cLeEOGPw »

gtrubetskoy wrote: post #67

What is really happening in Ukraine is that both sides of this conflict (pro-Euro and against) are absolutely corrupt and the people know it. The tragedy of this is that no one from the government or opposition represents the will of the people. The population of Ukraine really just wants an end to corruption and a better national identity, euro-integration was just the last straw, but not fundamental to this crisis…

The people know that, and the reason they fight for Ukraine to at least in future join EU is because, as they say themselves, in EU at least the laws are valid. And that is true. It has been already stated that in order for Ukraine to join EU it will have to undergo a reform that will rise the transparency and bring it closer to EU standards.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#190

Post by adrenalinup »

sethbannon wrote: post #74

People being kidnapped from hospital beds and tortured by their own government. It's hard to imagine a more depraved situation.

We had a similar situation in Republic of Moldova in 2009, an ex-USSR country near Ukraine, a so called twitter-revolution, one of the first of them. [1]

We are much smaller and less population but the tactics used in Ukraine reminds me of the events Moldova but on a bigger scale. So called "titushki" are the instigators that are infiltrating among peaceful protesting population with the intention to compromise the entire movement and to discredit the protest.

Students were tortured by the police for months after the protests begun. Students that participated in the protests were kidnapend from the dormitory. [2] Those slides of Ukraine are not at all surpising.

Protesters killed to death, at least 4. Valeriu Boboc, 23 year old who was also a father was killed after the protests ended http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Moldova_civil_unrest#Death...

I must say, the tactics of the instigators were very effective in our country. The result was burning of the house of parliament [3]. All the blame was on protesters, it basically discredited the protesters calling them vandals and thefts (as some of them have stolen some furniture). We believe that instigators and the police who gave up surprisingly easy were cooperating, and that they burned up and destroyed documents from parliament themselves.

I'm very glad that in Ukraine they are better prepared. I have very much sympathy with the protesters in Ukraine as the Russian influence in the region is still very much present. Russian is still defending it's interests and it makes us angry. You must understand that a country very rich in petrol and all kind of minerals have a great deal of influence when massively sponsoring parties of their interest and putting pressure with their own army in Transnistria that they left after collapse of USSR. [4]

* * *

There is also a big problem with russian population that stayed on our territory and continue to have the USSR values. And more of all, they continue to believe that they don't need to learn the local language. It's a mess. That's why it's so much fight between populations and shady people profiting of this situation.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Moldova_civil_unrest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_Revolution

[2] http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/EUR59/003/2009/en/cf...

[3] http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2009/04/07/world/0407-MOLDO...

[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria

Post reply on HN