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What is really happening in Ukraine

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Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#231

Post by avasylev »

shitgoose wrote: post #213
avasylev wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ridiculous... Except of few crazy people no one wants ethnically pure Ukraine. I grew up in western Ukraine and I have never seen single person discriminated for being Russian. I don't know why would you post that wiki link, WW2 situation was complex, but 100 years passed and it has nothing to do with current situation.

"I grew up in western Ukraine and I have never seen single person discriminated for being Russian." You must have been very shielded as a child.

I'm serious, I lived 25 years in Western Ukraine and I don't remember single person having issues because of being Russian. A lot of my friends are Russian and they freely spoke Russian as their everyday language (not just at home).

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#232

Post by solyanyk »

Aoyagi wrote: post #204
solyanyk wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can find tons of alternative views, with little effort. But let me save you some time and present the brief summary here: the protesters are, in fact, not all white knights. Moreover, it is by now rather clear that they don't all smell like roses and talk like fairies. More than one breach of gentlemanly conduct have been reported by independent sources, and I think it is now safe to say that each and every of th…

Heh, thanks, but I already knew that. That's why I'm disappointed to see so biased 'article' at the top of HN today. As for the last line: It matters because most popular media I've seen portray them as peaceful activists that are beaten by vicious police commandos armed with assault rifles and grenades. And I'll resent violence no matter who it comes from, but I guess it's the easiest way to get attention, huh? Not…

When the government controls all the power, including judicial system, refuses to acknowledge peaceful demonstrations for months, and then swiftly passes the law which pretty much outlaws protest (including, by the way, over the internet), how exactly are you going to arrange that "open transparent referendum" you are talking about?

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#233

Post by darkbot »

dimitar wrote: post #222
darkbot wrote: post #157

Wow, some this is some epic propaganda. Closer to truth is that this is more a coup-d'etat by the Ukrainian fascist paramilitary. The liberal Ukrainian opposition has been chased out of greater parts of the Maidan square and is now in control of "Right Sector", a loosely based umbrella coalition between various fascist and nazi organisations and parties. These extremist wants to ignite a civil war to "cleanse Ukraine…

The black and red flags are symbols of OUN-UPA - a WWII era insurgent army that fought both the Nazis and the USSR. Many different groups, parties and individuals use these very general symbols. They represent the Ukrainian struggle for independence, not a racist or anti-semitic agenda.

OUN-UPA collaborated with the occupying nazi-Germany forces and are responsible for massacres and ethnic cleansing. That's a historical fact.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#234

Post by grey-area »

Phil_Latio wrote: post #101
vixen99 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The European Elections are in May 2014 so make your voice heard.

I can not elect the european commission. If the european parliament decides something, this may happen: > The European Commission said Wednesday it will not suspend the safe harbor data privacy agreement with the U.S. despite calls from the European Parliament.

Like the king and his parliament in the uk, there will one day be a reckoning between the eu parliament and the commission. The reality today of course is that the commission holds all the power, but that balance is shifting.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#237

Post by zxcdw »

ommunist wrote: post #86

OK, lets also discuss Iran, Syria, Israel vs Palestine and all other bloody conflicts here. Is this political forum or what? With regard to Ukraine, I have a message to "protesters". Lads, instead of getting 30EUR per day of "protest", do some real coding for the benefit of your society.

I challenge everyone to read your past comments and reflect this one with the fact that you're Russian.

Now it would be a good time to stop your nationalistic dishonesty, when politics and people as human beings are against your views.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#238

Post by dimitar »

bitL wrote: post #11

Why don't you guys split Ukraine into two parts? The western part (pre-WW2's part of Poland) is pro-western, speaking Ukrainian, the eastern part is mostly inhabited by Russians that gravitate towards Moscow. Why nobody suggests this solution?

I upvoted this comment due to its honesty, but I disagree that Ukraine needs dividing.

Let me bring up some points:

* Why should apolitical people have their country divided?

* Ukraine isn't divided by language, practically everyone can use both to a different extent and there is no miscommunication. The language that you use most of the time doesn't have to match your politics and often doesn't.

* ~80% percent of the population identifies as simply as Ukrainian with majorities in both parts of the country.

* No part of the country is "mostly inhabited by Russians that gravitate towards Moscow". Even in the Crimea the self-identifying Russians don't have 50% of the population.

* The Yes vote in 1991 for Ukrainian independence from the USSR: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ukr_Referendum_1991.png

* 55% of ethnic Russians supported independence from Russia and they remember, are around 17% of the population.

* With the return of Crimean Tatars and Ukrainians from other parts of the USSR and withdrawal of Soviet troops if there was a confirming referendum today if anything the percentage would be bigger.

* Otherwise the culture is pretty much common to all Ukrainians.

* Religion isn't that different - people actually self-identify as Christian or East Orthodox and the traditions are the same all over the country. Even the Greek-Catholics (10% of population) are really much more Orthodox than Catholic.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#239

Post by darkbot »

strlen wrote: post #216
darkbot wrote: post #157

Wow, some this is some epic propaganda. Closer to truth is that this is more a coup-d'etat by the Ukrainian fascist paramilitary. The liberal Ukrainian opposition has been chased out of greater parts of the Maidan square and is now in control of "Right Sector", a loosely based umbrella coalition between various fascist and nazi organisations and parties. These extremist wants to ignite a civil war to "cleanse Ukraine…

> No, I am not Ukranian, nor Russian. Also I don't support either side. I think either regime is equally corrupted. I am sorry, but as an ethnically Jewish, Belarusian-born, Russian-speaker residing in US, I have to say what you're engaging in is the equivalent of "mansplaining" (EDIT: or "patronizing" if you prefer). To wit, on my Facebook, the only person who is presently in Ukraine (who attended school and a unive…

That JTA article is almsot 2 months old. A lot has changed since then. A lot has changed just in the last 5 days.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#240

Post by dimitar »

darkbot wrote: post #233
dimitar wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The black and red flags are symbols of OUN-UPA - a WWII era insurgent army that fought both the Nazis and the USSR. Many different groups, parties and individuals use these very general symbols. They represent the Ukrainian struggle for independence, not a racist or anti-semitic agenda.

OUN-UPA collaborated with the occupying nazi-Germany forces and are responsible for massacres and ethnic cleansing. That's a historical fact.

That is incorrect, OUN-UPA couldn't have collaborated with them because because it pronounced an independent Ukraine as soon as the Nazis invaded the USSR. The Nazis immediately arrested the members they could find and insurgency against them began immediately.

Please take a look at the flags at the bottom of this 40s UPA propaganda: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7e/UPA.jpg

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