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What is really happening in Ukraine

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Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#211
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about (4) trial in absentia? Is it possible under US laws?

A trial in absentia would have been preferable to a fiat killing, but the end result would have been the same. The US had no means of apprehending al-Awlaki because he had situated himself in a war zone controlled by AQAP. The trial would have concluded, and the US would have faced the same 3 choices. You make a good point, but not one that fundamentally changed the options on the ground.

We can't be sure what the result of that hypothetical trial would be. Otherwise why have a trial in the first place?

It appears there was a lawsuit against U.S. It was brought by al-Awlaki father after U.S. put him on a kill list (while he was still alive).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki#Lawsuit_agains....

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Russian speaking Ukrainian, participating in protests, living in Kiev that considers this quote by Albert Einstein to be very true "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind", you are so full of shit.

Would you dare to go to Lvov these days and speak Russian there, your native language?

I have been to Lviv and its perfectly OK to use Russian or any other language for that matter. You can often even hear Russian pop hits on the streets.

I think this misconception stems from the fact that Ukrainian speakers often reply in Ukrainian when spoken to in Russian, because they assume you know both languages, but they will switch to Russian if necessary. This freaks out Russian speakers from outside of Ukraine.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the descendands of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lviv_pogroms perpetrators will want an ethnically pure Ukraine. And East/South of Ukraine will not allow it. US state department is interested in the break up and pushing west ukr down the throat of EU(Germany) which really is not interested in that right now (EU is going down with PIIGS, but US needs even weaker EU with +50mil dirt poor Ukrainians with extremel…

This is ridiculous... Except of few crazy people no one wants ethnically pure Ukraine. I grew up in western Ukraine and I have never seen single person discriminated for being Russian. I don't know why would you post that wiki link, WW2 situation was complex, but 100 years passed and it has nothing to do with current situation.

"I grew up in western Ukraine and I have never seen single person discriminated for being Russian."

You must have been very shielded as a child.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Russian speaking Ukrainian, participating in protests, living in Kiev that considers this quote by Albert Einstein to be very true "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind", you are so full of shit.

Would you dare to go to Lvov these days and speak Russian there, your native language?

These protest are against Yankukovich and his regime. Not against Russians. A lot of activists on maidan speak Russian, including Klichko who speaks Russian better than Ukrainian. Plus Lvov is very popular among Russian tourists, still no one was hurt.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#216

Wow, some this is some epic propaganda. Closer to truth is that this is more a coup-d'etat by the Ukrainian fascist paramilitary. The liberal Ukrainian opposition has been chased out of greater parts of the Maidan square and is now in control of "Right Sector", a loosely based umbrella coalition between various fascist and nazi organisations and parties. These extremist wants to ignite a civil war to "cleanse Ukraine…

> No, I am not Ukranian, nor Russian. Also I don't support either side. I think either regime is equally corrupted.

I am sorry, but as an ethnically Jewish, Belarusian-born, Russian-speaker residing in US, I have to say what you're engaging in is the equivalent of "mansplaining" (EDIT: or "patronizing" if you prefer).

To wit, on my Facebook, the only person who is presently in Ukraine (who attended school and a university in US before moving back to Ukraine after graduation) is also Jewish, takes his Jewish roots far more seriously than I do (he had his icons set to the Israeli flag a multiple times), and is posting protest related pictures, and reposting _Russian language_ messages like "My dad was seized by Berkut. Are there any lawyers here that can help out?"

In terms of Ukrainian-Americans posting on this that I know none shown any signs of ultra nationalism and have plenty of Jewish, Russian, and other former-USSR friends in US, and in terms of religion happen to include agnostic, Orthodox (Western Ukraine has a larger Catholic presence as it was part of Poland and Austro-Hungarian Empire), and a Muslim.

Here's an article on this, by the way, about Jewish community's view of this: http://www.jta.org/2013/12/08/news-opinion/world/young-jews-...

(I tend to note that Passionate Americans That Know Everything Because They Read it On the Internet Somehow are going to likely 'splain this way with a Zionist conspiracy -- in a language very similar to what ultranationalists themselves use, ironically -- but Israel itself generally takes a "realpolitik" approach to these kinds of situations and the Israeli _government_ has made no statements).

My personal view of this is the extent to which the Western Media is under-reporting this story (and in my view they are: this has rarely, for example, come up on my Yahoo News pager which is generally syndicated from mainstream sources) is playing into the hands of ultra-nationalists. Keep in mind that Ukraine is far from the only country in Europe to have ultra-nationalist voted in as part genuine views and part protest votes: Golden Dawn in Greece had far greater electoral results and is far scarier, there's also Jobbik in Hungary, BNP in UK, National Front in France, and so on...

It is very much in Russia's interest to make sure ultra-nationalists become the dominant party in this: should the leader of Svoboda run against Yanukovich, the result would be a land-slide for Yanukovich. The best analogue for this is actually probably when David Duke (a KKK leader, anti-Semite, the full nine yards) ran for governor of Lousiana against a known crook (the bumper stickers were "vote for the crook, it's important"). He received many votes as a protest, but it would be insane to think his views represented the mainstream conservative US politics (he ran as a republican party candidate, but his opponent was endorsed by the republican party).

I should also note that generally in former USSR "right" doesn't mean what it means in US: the political spectrum there is best describes as a circle: mix of left-wing and right-wing liberals on one end (a spectrum between those who favour a Scandanvian-style welfare state and those leaning towards classical liberalism -- essentially the entire US/UK/Canada would simply be called "liberalism" in former USSR) and a "red-brown alliance" on the other.

I'd also add that Svoboda is actually very much anti-EU (again not much different from other far-right morons in Europe) and realistically speaking, should they come to power in any shape or form (they will never win a democratic election), they'll be overthrown far quicker than you can say "faster than Morsi/Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt". Since anti-Nazism is a very strong unifying theme between Russia and Western Europe, no one will actually tolerate a neo-Nazi state in Europe.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#217
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't protest from your home... There is a reason all demonstration happen in public. That is because if everyone is in house they aren't sure if the other people are satisfied or poltrons or ready to cause a change. Also don't tell me you can protest with your vote when government is ready to falsify those.

I'm only against violence and attacking police, not peaceful protests or civil disobedience. At this point, going home is the only way to get out of a situation that turned violent.

Yeah, except peaceful protests are banned and civil disobedience is useless. If you gather in the square the police has the right to beat you and arrest you, and they are fighting to oppose that. If you do nothing, you are silently accepting laws against protests and freedoms as just and fair. Between those choices, the only solution is violence, to show that state isn't strong enough to suppress you.

    A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than 
    a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
    -- Gandhi

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you dare to go to Lvov these days and speak Russian there, your native language?

These protest are against Yankukovich and his regime. Not against Russians. A lot of activists on maidan speak Russian, including Klichko who speaks Russian better than Ukrainian. Plus Lvov is very popular among Russian tourists, still no one was hurt.

Not to mention Yuschenko (the former Yanukovich opponent) himself spoke Russian at home and was Orthodox.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#219

What is really happening in Ukraine is that both sides of this conflict (pro-Euro and against) are absolutely corrupt and the people know it. The tragedy of this is that no one from the government or opposition represents the will of the people. The population of Ukraine really just wants an end to corruption and a better national identity, euro-integration was just the last straw, but not fundamental to this crisis…

The people know that, and the reason they fight for Ukraine to at least in future join EU is because, as they say themselves, in EU at least the laws are valid. And that is true. It has been already stated that in order for Ukraine to join EU it will have to undergo a reform that will rise the transparency and bring it closer to EU standards.

Pretty naive belief.

Spain just practically outlawed demonstrations or to publicly criticize the government.

Hamburg in Germany has declared 'danger zones' in parts of their city that's, anti-demonstration laws that are even more strict than the ones Ukraine.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#220
post #136

Can't watch any of the videos linked because youtube asks me to sign in to prove my age. And to sign up, it asks for cell phone number to send an SMS to verify. Perhaps because I use tor. Anyone have a usable source? If you have the viewtube greasemonkey plugin, you can download the video from youtube and upload it somewhere else (e.g mediafire, zippyshare). Would be good if someone does that.

Replace the "/watch?=$id" with "/v/$id" in the URL and it should work.

/embed/$id will give you HTML5
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