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Revolution in Kiev

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Re: Revolution in Kiev

#211

Post by nikolak »

ItendToDisagree wrote: post #175
nikolak wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, I didn't mean to imply that there have been deadly casualties, but that's the goal of throwing Molotov cocktail on someone. Saying that the protesters aren't using violence is wrong. None have been killed because they have firefighters and fire extinguishers with them, doesn't change the fact that throwing Molotov cocktail into someone's face can, and probably will, kill them.

I don't think I've ever heard of a Molotov being directed at a person because that isn't what they are useful for. Not to mention the fact that unless you were to hit a shield/helmet you likely wouldn't break the bottle and ignite the contents. They have been primarily used for disabling vehicles and making some ground impassable. It doesn't appear that the wiki even references their use against individuals so much a…

> * It doesn't appear that the wiki even references their use against individuals so much as against vehicles.*

No need for wiki citations when you can see it clearly being used against police forces here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuO53xeZkm8

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#212

Post by raphman »

Someone wrote: post #197
hooande wrote: post #94

This is an amazingly low tech revolution. The primary weapons of the protestors are: smoke, flammable liquid, rocks, shields and giant slingshots. These tools could have been used in the Peloponeasian War as easily as in 2014. It really says something about the character of the revolutionaries that they are willing to fight without modern weapons or equipment. I don't know enough about the Urkaine to asses the merit…

Low tech? Partly, but its success, I think, will depend heavily on the night tech of the mobile phone and the internet. If those weren't available, those in power could probably have ended this days ago. And [nitpick], I don't think they had lasers in the Peloponnesian war. Also: what's the rationale for having manholes locked from the inside in a government sector? I can see a reason for locking manhole covers to pr…

Locking manhole covers (or welding them shut) prevents assassins from easily placing bombs under them, and makes it harder for people to enter the sewers. Also, manhole covers may be used as weapons or shields.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#213

Post by michaelt »

Someone wrote: post #197
hooande wrote: post #94

This is an amazingly low tech revolution. The primary weapons of the protestors are: smoke, flammable liquid, rocks, shields and giant slingshots. These tools could have been used in the Peloponeasian War as easily as in 2014. It really says something about the character of the revolutionaries that they are willing to fight without modern weapons or equipment. I don't know enough about the Urkaine to asses the merit…

Low tech? Partly, but its success, I think, will depend heavily on the night tech of the mobile phone and the internet. If those weren't available, those in power could probably have ended this days ago. And [nitpick], I don't think they had lasers in the Peloponnesian war. Also: what's the rationale for having manholes locked from the inside in a government sector? I can see a reason for locking manhole covers to pr…

Some things you can do with manhole covers include: Stealing the covers or contents for metal scrap, smashing up whatever is inside to inconvenience people, attaching taps to telephone lines, putting remote control bombs beneath them to blow up the president's motorcade.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#214

Post by arrrg »

csomar wrote: post #50
arrrg wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Joining the common European market would be a great step towards prosperity, sure, with mutual benefits for everyone, as well as increased security, stability and peace. Having a large common market you can buy from and sell to is pretty awesome, actually. Add the pretty great more human benefits (freedom of movement, freedom of labor) and it’s a pretty great perspective. As it stands, however, the Ukraine is probabl…

Joining the common European market would be a great step towards prosperity, sure, with mutual benefits for everyone, as well as increased security, stability and peace. Big claims need big justifications, I guess. The EU experience wasn't all that good for Greece, for example.

Your complete lack of any historical perspective is deeply disturbing.

The EU’s achievements when it comes to prosperity and peace are mind-boggling.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#215

Post by dmytrish »

adobriyan wrote: post #187
jwr wrote: post #109

Did anyone else notice how refreshing this kind of reporting feels after being used to what the mainstream media feeds us? This story is low-key, trying to present all aspects, trying to stay objective -- it's been a long time since I read something like this from a journalist.

Note, he wrote story in English to make it repostable in western internets, so to influence public opinion in necessary way, namely, "people came out against Yanukovich". You know, kinda push our western friends to intervene.

I follow Varlamov's elucidation of the events and I must say that his blog is very influential in Russian segment of the internet and it deserves this. So he published the translation after multiple requests.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#216

Post by _random_ »

ajuc wrote: post #198
_random_ wrote: post #181

This is not a revolution. The political type of society is not going to change. The rioters are not supported by the population.

Strange that Ukrainians I know all support it.

I know both kinds. What would you personally choose: a corrupt government or a revolt that was designed by someone outside of your country with their own agenda?

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#217

Post by PavlovsCat »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #73
cdash wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the protesters have been more violent? Then why are there more of them dead than there are police and why are there more of them injured than police?

If you followed the news and read both sides, you'd see that there are dead policemen, and hundreds that are injured. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-prote... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLuvsXLQHBM

On the other hand, there are things like this: (warning, NSFW)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0zD3pOG-Tk

This is also "lovely", police taking a protester from a hospital: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eqi6anWpqc now that, my friend, are injuries.

And here you can see Berkut beating a man to death about whom they later claimed he jumped off the roof to escape arrest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaC_9ImEGfQ

Then there are these laws: http://craphound.com/images/dictatorship-en.jpg

If you're worried about fascists, you should also be worried about those in power in that country, and the fact that you're peddling their propaganda.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#218

Post by vitalique »

Two things that especially amaze about the actual 'street part' of Ukrainian revolution are complete absence of plundering or looting of local shops and that no firearms have been used by protesters.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#219

Post by thesz »

air wrote: post #207
thesz wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvia#Ethnic_groups is closest to the demographic graph of Latvia, for example. It stopped to grow right after Russian occupation ended. Take a closer look to the conditions in which most people live from where you have come. Or at their prospects in life. Or prospects of economy. I think that will change your opinion slightly.

Russians moving into the country during Soviet rule and moving out after it seem to explain the graph pretty well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian_Russians : The number of Russians in Latvia increased significantly during the Soviet occupation of Latvia when the size of the community grew from 10.5% of the total population in 1935 (206,499) to 34.0% in 1989 (905,515). It started to decrease in size again after La…

No, it doesn't fully explain changes. Numbers don't match.

Take a look at another statistics - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Latvia#Vital_st...

Number of births per 1000 had fallen right after end of "Russian occupation" and never ever regained 14.2 right before Latvian independence.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#220

Post by TeMPOraL »

raphman wrote: post #212
Someone wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low tech? Partly, but its success, I think, will depend heavily on the night tech of the mobile phone and the internet. If those weren't available, those in power could probably have ended this days ago. And [nitpick], I don't think they had lasers in the Peloponnesian war. Also: what's the rationale for having manholes locked from the inside in a government sector? I can see a reason for locking manhole covers to pr…

Locking manhole covers (or welding them shut) prevents assassins from easily placing bombs under them, and makes it harder for people to enter the sewers. Also, manhole covers may be used as weapons or shields.

Or selling as scrap metal.
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