Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Revolution in Kiev

zyalt.livejournal.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 377 posts

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#171

Post by mantas »

radicalbyte wrote: post #163
mantas wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI, Baltic states and ex-ussr-satellites are doing great in EU. Sure we still got a long way to go. But current state is good enough. Well, at least 10x better than Ukraine, Belorussia and other ex-ussr states that stayed together with Russia. Many Russians/Ukrainians/Belorussians come to ex-ussr-now-eu for shopping and medical procedures. Why? Stuff is cheaper and better quality here in Lithuania. And salaries are…

I know a number of Belorussians, and they all want to move to the EU. They also regularly drive to Poland for shopping, because it's cheaper and more things are available there :)

Yep. Shuttle buses with Belorussian plates and "shopping in Lithuania" slogans is common sight there.

Fun fact, Vilnius' IKEA is built next to a highway that goes to Belorussian border. Every 5th or so plate in the parking lot is BY.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#172

Post by dmytrish »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #167
dmytrish wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want to assert that Bulgaria, Slovakia would be better in Russian sphere of influence? Do you suggest that benzopirenes are more harmful than a lot of tear gas being used against protesters? Kiev is living its own life, re-read the Zyalt's post if you haven't read this yet. Protesters are stupid? Ok, is it better to stay quiet when you have your president becoming a dictator? When police is more like bandits a…

> Ok, is it better to stay quiet when you have your president becoming a dictator? When police is more like bandits and courts are lawless? When peaceful protests are almost outlawed just because it annoys the dictator and its clique? Reminds me of one country that tends to drone strike everything that they can't spy on.

The difference is that Yanukovych is the president of _my_ country.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#173

Post by gaius »

thesz wrote: post #129
IgorPartola wrote: post #117

Man, the amount of disdain people have for protesters in the comments to this story is really shocking. I do not exactly understand where it's coming from. Yanukovych is a corrupt petty thief and rapist, turned politician, who has very close ties with Russia, and is stealing from the Ukrainian people through corruption. He rigged an election in 2004 and only massive riots prevented him from coming into power then by…

Those commenters have very justified disdain. They want Ukraine to join European union. and the fate of Ukraine will be pretty grim in that case. My (not only mine's, actually) conclusion is based on experience of former Baltic USSR republics and former states from the Socialist block, including Bulgaria, Slovakia, etc. Never mind that burning car tires means producing benzopirenes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzo…

They want Ukraine to join European union. and the fate of Ukraine will be pretty grim in that case

I am as euroskeptic as the next man, but the EU is 100x better for everyone than the USSR was.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#175

Post by ItendToDisagree »

nikolak wrote: post #155
dmytrish wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None have been killed with a Molotov cocktail so far.

True, I didn't mean to imply that there have been deadly casualties, but that's the goal of throwing Molotov cocktail on someone. Saying that the protesters aren't using violence is wrong. None have been killed because they have firefighters and fire extinguishers with them, doesn't change the fact that throwing Molotov cocktail into someone's face can, and probably will, kill them.

I don't think I've ever heard of a Molotov being directed at a person because that isn't what they are useful for. Not to mention the fact that unless you were to hit a shield/helmet you likely wouldn't break the bottle and ignite the contents.

They have been primarily used for disabling vehicles and making some ground impassable. It doesn't appear that the wiki even references their use against individuals so much as against vehicles.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#176

Post by csomar »

claudius wrote: post #152
csomar wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why you got a downvote. Can someone explain how destruction or burning stuff can bring power or wealth? (you can find my opinion here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7124322 )

The key is that there is little to no destruction. Destruction looks like [0], what you see on the pictures from Kiev is a minor annoyance and can be fixed within a few days. Burning old car tires might not be the ecologically best way to dispose of them, but as long as it is limited to a short period of time, it likely does less harm than a single day of people commuting to work by car in a given metropolitan area.…

Marshall Plan is the exception, not the rule. Otherwise, they usually burn tyres which have little economic value. However, these pictures terrorizes investment and the people. This can result in a bad economic season which start a roller-coaster effect. Unemployment -> more unrest -> more unemployment...

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#177

Post by ItendToDisagree »

kybernetyk wrote: post #59
rosser wrote: post #4

I feel like this kind of thing (the various Arab Spring uprisings, the Ukrainian revolution, &c ) is very well served by the cacophony of amateur/citizen journalism that flows out of an individual event. Sure, at the time, it's incredibly noisy, because there's so much primary source material being created, with such incredible depth and nuance. Once people start to be able to assemble a comprehensive understanding o…

> amateur/citizen "journalism" No need to put journalism into quotes because it is real journalism what those people are doing.

If you were to ask current mainstream american media sources they would claim it isn't journalism because they are 'activists'. Ala the treatment of anyone who is covering the Snowden leaks without being sympathetic to the US Gov.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#178

Post by gaius »

higherpurpose wrote: post #24
sillysaurus2 wrote: post #7

A protester in Kiev did an IAmA on Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1w17qn/iama_protestor_... According to him, "Russia is trying to keep all the former Soviet Union satellite countries under control, and that is the root cause of the rioting."

They've already lost Moldavia recently, and didn't they lose Georgia, too? I don't think they can keep them under control much longer.

"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." ―Princess Leia

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#179

Post by ajuc »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #118
prostoalex wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine in 2004 worked out, albeit short-term. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Revolution

Yes, Yanukovych won the next elections when there was less western interference...

Consider this - Yushchenko let the people decide. Do you really think Yanukovych will do the same in next elections? Will Yanukovych just let the people vote him out of the office?

He has no chance to win again in honest elections, and he already faked the elections before orange revolution. He was in prison twice for theft, he is a criminal. How do you think people can trust him to do the right thing? His family become very rich very quickly. He jailed opposition candidate. He changed constitution to make it harder to protest.

The EU partnership thing was just the last straw. People don't want to be stuck with Yanukovych forever, and now is last chance to get rid of him.

Re: Revolution in Kiev

#180

Post by pgeorgi »

jwr wrote: post #109

Did anyone else notice how refreshing this kind of reporting feels after being used to what the mainstream media feeds us? This story is low-key, trying to present all aspects, trying to stay objective -- it's been a long time since I read something like this from a journalist.

Reading the report, I can't say it's objective - on the contrary it's rather biased, but it doesn't try to conceal it.

That alone made it more useful reporting for me than many other things I've read about the situation recently where I had to try to figure out what the hidden bias is (and account for it appropriately).

Post reply on HN