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Revolution in Kiev
91–100 of 377 posts
Re: Revolution in Kiev
#92The reality distortion field the protesters have formed is impressive. They've completely overshadowed a few key points: - The Yanukovych government offered a power-sharing agreement with the opposition, offering Yatsenyuk the PM position and Klitschko the deputy PM job, which the opposition rejected: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-oppositions-rejects-vik... - The fascist element - one of the opposition leaders…
Protesters want Yanukovych to go away. They do not want to stay him as president. Power-sharing agreement is a bluff. I do not understand your connection of neo-nazi symbols with Oleh Tyahnybok and Svoboda party. If someone wears something why do you apply it to this party? Also UPA never collaborated with Nazis. They fought against communists and nazis at the same time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurge…
From the Wikipedia link you citrd:
"In autumn 1943 some detachments of the UPA attempted to find rapprochement with the Germans. Although doing so was condemned by an OUN/UPA order from November 25, 1943, these actions did not end.[58] In early 1944 UPA forces in several Western regions engaged in cooperation with the German Wehrmacht, Waffen SS, SiPo and SD."
Re: Revolution in Kiev
#93A protester in Kiev did an IAmA on Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1w17qn/iama_protestor_... According to him, "Russia is trying to keep all the former Soviet Union satellite countries under control, and that is the root cause of the rioting."
Well, it's very popular in Ukraine and kinda nazist point of view, considering Russia as root of all problems. That's why so many nazists amongst "protestors" and why we can have nazi state in Europe if they will take power.
Re: Revolution in Kiev
#94This is an amazingly low tech revolution. The primary weapons of the protestors are: smoke, flammable liquid, rocks, shields and giant slingshots. These tools could have been used in the Peloponeasian War as easily as in 2014. It really says something about the character of the revolutionaries that they are willing to fight without modern weapons or equipment. I don't know enough about the Urkaine to asses the merit of their politics, but I am inclined to side with the group that has old women and children pitching in to help with logistics. There aren't just criminals and malcontents. Right or wrong, these people feel strongly about their cause.
The courage these activists are showing is going to do a lot to help accomplish their political goals. Every day that they hold out will increase the volume of their message. When I originally heard about this I thought it was more of a violent uprising. But the protestors are fighting with fireworks and laser pointers. This kind of aggressive non-violence will play better in the media once more people learn about the details. If the number of casualties remains low this could turn into an Eastern European Tahrir Square, with hopefully positive benefits for the whole region.
Re: Revolution in Kiev
#95The reality distortion field the protesters have formed is impressive. They've completely overshadowed a few key points: - The Yanukovych government offered a power-sharing agreement with the opposition, offering Yatsenyuk the PM position and Klitschko the deputy PM job, which the opposition rejected: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-oppositions-rejects-vik... - The fascist element - one of the opposition leaders…
Yanukovych is a criminal who should never have even bee eligible to run: http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/from-prison-to-presi... He rigged an election before and got caught. He is a convicted felon and a puppet controlled by Russia. There is no reality distortion field here: he is bad for Ukraine. Remember, Ukraine does not have a separate judicial system to undo unjust laws. Therefore the people have a respo…
He was convicted as a youth when the Soviet Union was still a thing... People can change.
Did he rig the election when he ousted Yushchenko and the ruling party?
Re: Revolution in Kiev
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
The protesters are manipulated into thinking that joining EU and getting rid of Yanukovich is somehow the first step to prosperity... And the blogosphere is manipulated into buying this as some kind of completely spontaneous grass roots movement. Sure people want change.. But this is bankrolled elsewhere.. I bet it wasn't that expensive either.
Bankrolled by who? EU? US? Who? And do you have any evidence? BTW-Do you get your news from RT?
It could even have been bankrolled from Russia. Even though I speak Russian and some Ukrainian, and I have followed current events in both countries for years, I can't figure out what is actually going on here. Yes, it could be another dumb move by the Americans who have a real habit of foot in mouth internationally, but it could just as well be part of a clever complex multi-year gambit by the Russians who have a strong tradition of playing chess, not just around a table with wooden game pieces, but in international politics as well.
Re: Revolution in Kiev
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
So the protesters have been more violent? Then why are there more of them dead than there are police and why are there more of them injured than police?
Lets be honest, if your stupid enough to throw rocks at armed policemen and military, let alone malatov's your asking for it. The issue I am curious about verifying is supposed disappearances from hospitals. Violent resistance will get that in return, to claim moral superiority for one side over another is reaching.
How far does your disapproval of violent resistance go? Do you disapprove of the Polish Resistance's Operation Heads?
Violence is the only option these people have. Their democracy is not functional, and their courts are powerless to correct these problems. Non-violent protests are made impossible by the government.
Re: Revolution in Kiev
#98Just remember that everything you read/see about Ukraine is propaganda published by someone who is trying to get you to agree with their point of view. They are careful to select their photos to not show the things that they don't want you to know about. For instance, these photos careful do not show the neo-nazi far right groups, the people with handguns, or the police being hit by flaming molotov cocktails or wound…
Yes, I feel rather superior being a dual citizen of a NAFTA country which gets along with its neighbors, and an EU country which also gets along with its neighbors. I simply do not agree with any political movement that is based on demonizing a group of citizens of your own country or based on demonizing a country which is a neighbor. Given that Ukrainians seem to be doing both, I am quite smug and patronising about…
So far the protesters' actions have been targeting the government, not the citizens who support it. As to "demonizing a country which is a neighbor", the very fact you chose those words shows you are completely unfamiliar with the situation. Which makes your patronizing attitude not only needlessly arrogant, but also uninformed.
Re: Revolution in Kiev
#99The reality distortion field the protesters have formed is impressive. They've completely overshadowed a few key points: - The Yanukovych government offered a power-sharing agreement with the opposition, offering Yatsenyuk the PM position and Klitschko the deputy PM job, which the opposition rejected: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-oppositions-rejects-vik... - The fascist element - one of the opposition leaders…
> And finally, Yanukovych was not only democratically elected You may want to fact-check that. Accounts on the matter, as they say, differ wildly.
> You may want to fact-check that. Accounts on the matter, as they say, differ wildly.
How did he rig the election when Yushchenko was in power?
Re: Revolution in Kiev
#100How well are these events being reported in the media (US), in your view?