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Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

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Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#311

Post by jscheel »

Fuxy wrote: post #291
jscheel wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are NEVER forced to steal things that aren't essential to survival. Starving on the street and steal a loaf a bread, that's one thing. Don't want to participate in many varied ways of listen to music for free legally and so choosing to steal the next big album you want to hear, not ok, ever.

Ok. I agree forced may be a bit of a strong word since i can always choose not to pirate it. However what about books or scientific papers which are hidden behind pay walls or just incredibly expensive. The price of a good programming book is about £20. But when your monthly income is £300 that is a lot of money. Not to mention you have to pay electricity, gas, etc. and the prices for the utilities are not that much…

I will agree with you that it's definitely important for products to be priced appropriately for the region they are sold in. And, I understand that access to information can be a huge roadblock, which is why it's important for people to free up information as best as possible. Still, when you consider things like public libraries, free access to internet, etc., you have to question whether or not you have really tried to do it without pirating someone else.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#312

Post by jscheel »

jellicle wrote: post #266
untog wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, they're not in any way comparable.

The UN declaration of human rights includes one sentence talking about the right to food, and many paragraphs talking about the right to participate in culture, community, communicate, and so on. So if we judge by that, the right to participate in culture is more important than the right to food (or more likely, is simply more often challenged and disagreed with). If the whole legal regime around copyright is having…

Have you even read the Universal Declaration of Human Rights? Articles 23 and 25 are not supplanted by Article 27. In fact, Article 30 specifically states that you cannot interpret the UDHR in any way that would allow you to remove rights set forth in previous the articles. And, as surprising as this may sound, the UDHR doesn't specify order of importance based on word count.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#313

Post by shmerl »

fafner wrote: post #296
shmerl wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam can't be considered DRM free in many cases, for example because they don't let you backing up installers / packages, so if the service closes down you lose your collection. The only completely DRM-free gaming distributor is GOG. Humble Bundle and Desura are mixed. You are right in general though. Going DRM free not only won't hurt any publisher, it will only gain respect from customers and will improve the qual…

And GOG refuses to add GNU/Linux support. Considering that many GOG games run in DOSEmu anyway and some come with native Linux support this is not really understandable.

> And GOG refuses to add GNU/Linux support.

Yes, that's one of their downsides. Even their reasoning is becoming less and less sensible. They claimed they still can't figure out how to offer long term support on Linux. May be Docker can help them.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#314

Post by codezero »

krasin wrote: post #66
hbags wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you should not be okay with DRM. It's as simple as it's: DRM is the form of slavery. Sorry Ivan, but voluntarily agreeing to access encrypted content is not comparable to slavery.

first of all, I agree that my message was too short and didn't have any arguments to positively contribute to the thread. Sorry about that. Now, let me explain how did I come to this comparison (even if it seems rogue). To make it more specific, let's consider Raspberry Pi, which is one of the most open ARM boards and, at the same time, practices DRM. For example, its hardware video decoding capabilities might be unl…

Slightly off-topic, in addition to the DRM, the Raspberry Pi has a proprietary firmware that is not open source, so it's difficult to bake your own bootloader.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#315

Post by warfangle »

shmerl wrote: post #278
Semaphor wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam is a distributor. If a certain games has the Steam DRM included or not is (though sadly not mentioned on the product page) up to the publisher/developer. On the GOG forum there is a (probably outdated) list [1] of those games. [1] http://www.gog.com/forum/general/list_of_drmfree_games_on_st...

DRM proliferation is conducted in three steps: 1. Publishers decide to treat all potential users as criminals, and insist on using DRM in their products. 2. Distributors accept that, and help these unethical publishers to sell those products. 3. Users accept being treated as criminals, and buy these products from distributors. It starts from the publisher of course, but anywhere down the line, one can refuse to accep…

2a. Distributors that don't accept that go out of business, because none of the publishers from 1. want anything to do with them.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#316

Post by Sssnake »

cbhl wrote: post #205
simonsarris wrote: post #107

I suppose that the title assertion is to be expected. DRM only works if you don't know how it works. ~~~ I'm not sure I see anything wrong with DRM per se (this could be my fever talking), there are probably good uses I'm too dim to think about, but I do think it's unnecessary as part of the HTML specification. There's no industry or company that has switched to DRM-free content, that I know of, that has failed or su…

I recall DreamCast failing primarily because of piracy -- everyone burned games to CD-Rs instead of buying them.

It is amazing how that myth persists. Piracy was much more common for the playstation, and I seem to recall it did ok.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#317

Post by sp332 »

talmand wrote: post #272
jellicle wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UN declaration of human rights includes one sentence talking about the right to food, and many paragraphs talking about the right to participate in culture, community, communicate, and so on. So if we judge by that, the right to participate in culture is more important than the right to food (or more likely, is simply more often challenged and disagreed with). If the whole legal regime around copyright is having…

Wait, are you implying that the UN has declared that stealing the results of someone's labor is justified because it's a "right"? We might as well declare anarchy and get it over with. I also fail to see how copyright laws are preventing anyone from enjoying their culture.

You don't think Mickey Mouse and other Disney properties are part of our culture? Copyright on those works would have expired ages ago, if the laws were enforced as they were written at the time. Disney continues to prevent people from participating in that part of our culture.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#318

Post by throwaway2048 »

greyfade wrote: post #307
cbhl wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall DreamCast failing primarily because of piracy -- everyone burned games to CD-Rs instead of buying them.

The failure of the Dreamcast was the pitifully small library, not piracy.

the dreamcast had 700+ games, more than gamecube and xbox combined

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#319

Post by shmerl »

warfangle wrote: post #315
shmerl wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DRM proliferation is conducted in three steps: 1. Publishers decide to treat all potential users as criminals, and insist on using DRM in their products. 2. Distributors accept that, and help these unethical publishers to sell those products. 3. Users accept being treated as criminals, and buy these products from distributors. It starts from the publisher of course, but anywhere down the line, one can refuse to accep…

2a. Distributors that don't accept that go out of business, because none of the publishers from 1. want anything to do with them.

For example GOG is a successful DRM free distributor - they only accept DRM free games from various publishers. There are others as well (for music, e-books and etc.). It's mostly video industry which lacks DRM-free distribution options (services like this are virtually non existent worldwide: https://www.headweb.com/en/ See their DRM-free terms of purchase: https://www.headweb.com/en/100237/purchase-terms).

Supporting unethical practice can't be excused with fear of going out of business by the way. Also, publishers need distributors and users not any less than distributors and users need publishers, if not even more. Therefore voting with your wallet (on either distributor or user level) is not senseless. Except that distributors have more leverage on publishers, because of their scale, in comparison with an individual who buys only DRM-free products. Therefore distributors can be blamed more for DRM proliferation.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#320

Post by pbhjpbhj »

girvo wrote: post #4

Sigh. Look, I'm okay with DRM, as long as it works on all my devices. EME won't, under linux, I guarantee the DRM Vendors won't bother releasing Linux binaries. That annoys me.

DRM destroys the possibility that the contract of copyright can be upheld.

The contract is that we, the people, give - through our respective states - content producers a limited monopoly on reproduction [and modification, etc.] of artistic works in exchange for them being release in to the public domain at the end of that limited term.

With DRM a content producer (or at least the rights holder) destroys the ability of the work to pass in to the public domain [effectively].

In other words applying DRM breaks the contract. This means that we, the people, should be under no obligation to provide the state enforcement to their monopolistic rights gained via that contract.

There are ways the contract could be maintained under DRM [deposit an unblemished copy that can be released to all copy holders on expiry of the term] but I've never seen anything to suggest rights holders are acting to avoid breaching the central contract.

This is pertinent because it's not just linux that will be cut out of being able to present this data [DRM protected works] but also the OS of those in the future who're supposed to get access to copyright works which are currently being locked for good by DRM techniques.

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