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Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

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Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#271

Post by mitosis »

MichaelGG wrote: post #127
byuu wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DRM is becoming increasingly complex and elaborate, and taking longer and longer to fully crack. Compare PS2 to PS3 crack times, for instance. The media executives are of the firm belief that unbreakable DRM is just around the corner, and that when they reach it, piracy will end and they can go back to charging whatever they want again. A return to the good old days of $25 CDs for one song you like and eight fill…

DRM on a sealed hardware platform is entirely different than DRM on a consumer controlled device, which is what the HTML5 DRM plugin interface hopes to achieve.

Do consumers really control their devices anymore? Maybe they still can, but in the industry, there's no doubt that this is viewed as a problem that needs solving.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#272

Post by talmand »

jellicle wrote: post #266
untog wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, they're not in any way comparable.

The UN declaration of human rights includes one sentence talking about the right to food, and many paragraphs talking about the right to participate in culture, community, communicate, and so on. So if we judge by that, the right to participate in culture is more important than the right to food (or more likely, is simply more often challenged and disagreed with). If the whole legal regime around copyright is having…

Wait, are you implying that the UN has declared that stealing the results of someone's labor is justified because it's a "right"? We might as well declare anarchy and get it over with.

I also fail to see how copyright laws are preventing anyone from enjoying their culture.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#273

Post by talmand »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #252
wernercd wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends... He could live somewhere that he can't get access to legal copies of TV shows he wants to watch (Some TV shows take months, if ever, to show up locally). Or live somewhere like Australia where everything costs prohibitively more than elsewhere. If I want a TV show - Say House of Cards - and it's not available, or it's available much later than elsewhere, or it's prohibitively more pricey... They want the sh…

>> "They want the show and the only reasonable way to get it... then it will "force" people who want it to Piracy." I would very much like a Ferrari California. It's unlikely I will ever be able to afford one - it is prohibitively expensive for me. I am not being forced to steal it. I understand like a rational human being should that if I can't afford something or it isn't available to me and it isn't essential to m…

No, I think it's more the role of the victim of the theft to decide whether it was morally wrong or not.

Otherwise, yes, this idea of being "forced" to pirate something they want but don't have easy access to seems a rather silly statement.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#274

Post by talmand »

staticelf wrote: post #228
Fuxy wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally as one of those pirates they are trying to stop piracy is only an issue when your content is not easily accessible the legal way or it is too expensive. I have experienced both. For instance songs are very cheap when your monthly income over £1,500 but when your monthly income is £300 (that's the equivalent in pounds in the country i grew up in) that's a bit too much for just one song. Same for everything…

I totally agree with your statements. The only thing I pirate nowadays are basically movies because there is no easy way to purchase them. I don't really pay for music though as I use mostly Grooveshark/Soundcloud and/or listen to online radio. And it's fucking ridiculous that you have to a saloon to watch a new movie and pay a ridiculous amount of money per person to watch a single movie. I pirate all movies I can o…

So, content providers are "harassing" you in some way by not making it easy for you to purchase their content or they want to charge what you personally feel is too much? You pirate because they "harass" you? That's a new defense of pirating for me.

Do they target you specifically with this harassment or is it just in general for the population of where you live?

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#275

Post by talmand »

andyzweb wrote: post #257
flavor8 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does, in that it allows business agreements to be signed. Without DRM, old content industries aren't interested in playing.

and we aren't interested in the old content industries. they are "considered harmful" at best

If you're interested in their content, then you are interested in the old content industries. If you aren't interested in their content, then what they do will have little effect on you personally.

I require a definition of how they are "considered harmful" because I seriously doubt that.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#276

Post by masklinn »

lucian1900 wrote: post #239
masklinn wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the site good, but I only got grief from the downloader (back when I tried it a year or 2 ago, it may have gotten better since), for all of its slowness Steam's installation and updating process is much more hands-off and convenient.

The downloader is quite smooth, at least now. You still have to install and update manually, which is a bit annoying. The one really cool thing in Steam is savegame sync, but not even all games support it.

> The one really cool thing in Steam is savegame sync, but not even all games support it.

Yes, that was a very annoying discovery when I came back from holidays, after I'd started playing Rogue Legacy on my laptop and realised I had to hunt the savegame locations and pray they were compatible between the OSX and Windows versions of the game (they were)

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#277

Post by talmand »

Nursie wrote: post #200
bitwize wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me tell you how things work in the real world. When the people with money say "we want this", you don't argue. It doesn't matter if it's technically infeasible. It doesn't matter if it won't have the intended effect. When the people with money want something, YOU GIVE IT TO THEM. And let them deal with the consequences. Otherwise, you won't get the business, and life can otherwise be made very, very difficult for…

>> When the people with money say "we want this", you don't argue. It doesn't matter if it's technically infeasible. It doesn't matter if it won't have the intended effect. When the people with money want something, YOU GIVE IT TO THEM. Strange how the general public don't get DRM-free movies from hollywood... Either way, my point was exactly about 'Hollywood', if you want to call them that, it's them that are delusi…

The general public doesn't have an issue with DRM, they happily purchase the content as-is today. They may grumble when they have to purchase a movie for the second or third time but they continue to do so. Therefore the public, being people with money, have stated overwhelmingly that they want content without stipulating anything about DRM, free or otherwise. You are attempting to apply your viewpoint on the general public, which clearly does not agree with you.

As for your statement that Hollywood is being delusional about DRM being able to prevent piracy. They are not delusional about it at all. They know exactly what's going on. They want DRM that prevents casual copying so that Uncle Bob doesn't give a copy of the latest movie to his entire family which is not an attempt at monetary gain. That way they only have to spend money going after serious piracy efforts that exist for the purpose of making money. Your statement assumes that Hollywood is being run by stupid people and that's a serious mistake to make in this type of debate.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#278

Post by shmerl »

Semaphor wrote: post #245
shmerl wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam can't be considered DRM free in many cases, for example because they don't let you backing up installers / packages, so if the service closes down you lose your collection. The only completely DRM-free gaming distributor is GOG. Humble Bundle and Desura are mixed. You are right in general though. Going DRM free not only won't hurt any publisher, it will only gain respect from customers and will improve the qual…

Steam is a distributor. If a certain games has the Steam DRM included or not is (though sadly not mentioned on the product page) up to the publisher/developer. On the GOG forum there is a (probably outdated) list [1] of those games. [1] http://www.gog.com/forum/general/list_of_drmfree_games_on_st...

DRM proliferation is conducted in three steps:

1. Publishers decide to treat all potential users as criminals, and insist on using DRM in their products.

2. Distributors accept that, and help these unethical publishers to sell those products.

3. Users accept being treated as criminals, and buy these products from distributors.

It starts from the publisher of course, but anywhere down the line, one can refuse to accept this. Distributor can refuse dealing with DRMed products from publishers. Users can refuse buying DRMed products from distributors. Any participation in that chain proliferates DRM, and one can't excuse this participation with the fact that it was initiated by the publisher.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#279

Post by talmand »

vidarh wrote: post #220
bitwize wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me tell you how things work in the real world. When the people with money say "we want this", you don't argue. It doesn't matter if it's technically infeasible. It doesn't matter if it won't have the intended effect. When the people with money want something, YOU GIVE IT TO THEM. And let them deal with the consequences. Otherwise, you won't get the business, and life can otherwise be made very, very difficult for…

In reality, most of the pirate activity in this house is my 4 year old son watching full length pirated movies on YouTube. There is no real barrier to piracy. There's a minimal barrier for the hottest Hollywood properties - meaning you have to go through the hassle of a torrent instead of just going to YouTube - but if you want the content for free bad enough, you'll get it. Usually before it is available through leg…

Actually, that wouldn't necessarily be considered piracy. Unless the laws have changed the last time I read up on it, this is legal on your part but illegal for the source of the stream.

Where your kid might be the factor in the piracy bit is in file-sharing, which makes you an uploader and not just a downloader.

Re: Requirements for DRM in HTML are confidential

#280

Post by shmerl »

Svip wrote: post #230
ekianjo wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam will require you to be connected to their servers once in a while at least. There's no pure offline mode.

Only for games that require Steam. A game bought through Steam does not necessarily require Steam. Europa Universalis III can be run without Steam running. Europa Universalis IV only requires Steam to be run once (and once for every DLC you buy, in order to activate it). These settings are up to the game developer themselves. You are right about the offline mode, but it does not apply to all games.

Running the game and installing it aren't the same thing. Some Steam can can be probably trivially copied (the game directory), and are backup-able that way, but you never know which ones, and which require more steps for installation. Steam also doesn't mark any such details on the games before you buy them.
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