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What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

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Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#71

Post by w1ntermute »

logjam wrote: post #69
w1ntermute wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you're forgetting the phrase "shit happens". Oh come on. There is no excuse for not using contraception when you're not financially, emotionally, and maritally prepared to have a child. I don't know about this particular man's case, but 95% of unwanted pregnancies are due to failure to use contraception or use it properly [0], which is nothing more or less than sheer irresponsibility on the part of the futu…

"I don't know about this particular man's case..." followed by "He irresponsibly had a child...." [emphasis added] Do you even read your own writing from one paragraph to the next? How in the fuck do you have any clue whatsoever about what happened to "this guy" before and at the time he had his child? The only "entitlement" here is you making really amazing, shitty assumptions. Over and over.

> Do you even read your own writing from one paragraph to the next?

Do you even use any semblance of common sense? Even if his daughter was one of the 5% of pregnancies that resulted from failure of contraception, the mother should have gotten an abortion. Not all pregnancies have to result in a birth.

Regardless, my argument isn't specific to this individual. On the whole, 95% of unwanted pregnancies are the result of irresponsibility. And over and over, we see articles like this one about people who have children when they're too young to financially support them and then complain about how they're not getting paid more. That is entitlement.

> How in the fuck do you have any clue whatsoever about what happened to "this guy" before and at the time he had his child?

Regardless of what "happened to" him, he shouldn't have impregnated a woman at the age of 20, and stopped the birth if it happened on accident. That much is clear.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#72

Post by dkokelley »

chadwickthebold wrote: post #27
dkokelley wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you define an ethical wage for menial labor?

How about a wage that was at least a decent amount above the federal poverty level?

By most measures the man in question does earn a rate higher than the "federal poverty level". It seems like the issue is that he doesn't work enough hours.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#73

Post by dragonwriter »

WildUtah wrote: post #66
blhack wrote: post #36

/s Does anybody see a link to this guys github profile? I wonder how far along he is on any side projects that he's working on. Surely he must hang out at any of the many coworking spaces in SF on the weekend, right? I don't mean to be crass here, but...there are SO MANY programs available for this guy to learn to code, and then get the employee benefit of taking home free food from his employer (seriously? He's upse…

Furthermore, move out of the bay area, man! That's one of the most expensive places to live in the country! Whenever I see these articles, I think about what makes the Bay Area expensive. The key factor is housing prices. There's a limited amount of land available near the centers of SV because of mountains and natural areas. Supply is strictly constrained and demand is very strong because of industry growth. The res…

> The Bay Area has chosen to be unlivable and unpleasant by its choice of public officials.

You seem to confuse "high density" with "livable" or "pleasant". I don't think that makes a lot of sense.

> Those city officials have prohibited the practices that make city living affordable.

San Francisco -- whose development policies you suggest would make San Jose more affordable -- is more expensive to live in than San Jose. Tokyo and New York City -- your other comparators for the Bay Area -- aren't exactly bastions of affordability.

The profits for developers if your proposals were adopted are, of course, clear. The mechanism by which "affordable", "livable", or "pleasant" come out of them is far less clear.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#74

Post by DanBC »

w1ntermute wrote: post #64
MattGrommes wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're forgetting the phrase "shit happens". There is no way of knowing what happened to the mom or their relationship. And I don't think it matters either. How would his having a wife have any impact on his situation? If she didn't work, it would be another person to take care of. If she did work, they'd have the same childcare problems mentioned in the article. He seems like he's working hard to take care o…

> I think you're forgetting the phrase "shit happens". Oh come on. There is no excuse for not using contraception when you're not financially, emotionally, and maritally prepared to have a child. I don't know about this particular man's case, but 95% of unwanted pregnancies are due to failure to use contraception or use it properly [0], which is nothing more or less than sheer irresponsibility on the part of the futu…

> but 95% of unwanted pregnancies are due to failure to use contraception or use it properly [0], which is nothing more or less than sheer irresponsibility on the part of the future parents.

He made have made sure that she was using contraception, and not known that she was doing so incorrectly. Or maybe she had some medication interaction that no one warned her about. Or maybe they were one of the 5%.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#75

Post by chinasmith »

blhack wrote: post #36

/s Does anybody see a link to this guys github profile? I wonder how far along he is on any side projects that he's working on. Surely he must hang out at any of the many coworking spaces in SF on the weekend, right? I don't mean to be crass here, but...there are SO MANY programs available for this guy to learn to code, and then get the employee benefit of taking home free food from his employer (seriously? He's upse…

>The Bay is one of the most desirable places in the WORLD to live

Hahahhahahahahahaha, keep drinking the flavor-aid as long as it let's you keep hilarious opinions like this and the abhorrent ones above it.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#76

Post by w1ntermute »

logjam wrote: post #65
w1ntermute wrote: post #31

So let me get this straight. This guy got a girl who wasn't (or isn't anymore) his wife pregnant when he was 20 and didn't have a college degree. No shit it's going to be hard to get along. For fuck's sake , you can get FREE condoms from Planned Parenthood or another local health clinic. The sense of entitlement people have is just astonishing to me.

Let us get you straight. "This guy" has a "sense of entitlement" in your little world....because he's taking care of his daughter, worked at a menial job to make ends meets and while he kept studyting and just got his college degree, programs on the side, just got a new job, and took the time and energy to try to improve conditions for his fellow employees....and then geniuses like you whine about "free condoms" and…

He's complaining about a job that's paying $16/hour an hour when the article clearly states that $16.50/hour is enough for a single person to live on in the valley. He says he has to turn down hours because of his daughter, which means he could probably make enough to survive if she wasn't present. Ergo, his current difficulties are largely brought on by the irresponsible impregnation of a woman when he was not ready to raise a child.

Please. Just stop spouting liberal claptrap for a second and use your head.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#77

Post by chinasmith »

ericabiz wrote: post #28
stephencanon wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you really want to pull yourself out of poverty and you’re very lucky , all doors can be open to you. Not everyone will be as lucky as you were.

I'm genuinely curious as to why people believe that it is 100% up to "luck" that some people are successful and others are not. If it was "luck", wouldn't CEOs be evenly distributed amongst minorities, men, and women? Or at least per the population distribution? Or are white males just that much more "lucky" than women and minorities? If you think answering those questions is tough, you and I are on the same page--th…

Being born a straight white male with a financially stable family in America is luck.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#78

Post by chinasmith »

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #39
ThomPete wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's luck because plenty of people do exactly the same thing as you and me. Work hard, take what they can get, have ambition and yet still don't make it. If you want to see this in it's purest form look at music and art. Plenty of amazing hardworking musicians that will never make a dime. Plenty of hacks who will.

Why do people always reference hard work? Ditch diggers work hard. Migrant farm laborers work hard. So what?

Ditches need to be digged. Farms need to be tended to. People need to eat.

The laborers should be paid for the value of the work instead of receiving the slimmest of margins from the fruit of their labor.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#79

Post by w1ntermute »

DanBC wrote: post #74
w1ntermute wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you're forgetting the phrase "shit happens". Oh come on. There is no excuse for not using contraception when you're not financially, emotionally, and maritally prepared to have a child. I don't know about this particular man's case, but 95% of unwanted pregnancies are due to failure to use contraception or use it properly [0], which is nothing more or less than sheer irresponsibility on the part of the futu…

> but 95% of unwanted pregnancies are due to failure to use contraception or use it properly [0], which is nothing more or less than sheer irresponsibility on the part of the future parents. He made have made sure that she was using contraception, and not known that she was doing so incorrectly. Or maybe she had some medication interaction that no one warned her about. Or maybe they were one of the 5%.

> He made have made sure that she was using contraception, and not known that she was doing so incorrectly.

This is also being irresponsible. Don't stick your dick in crazy.

> Or maybe she had some medication interaction that no one warned her about.

Not sure what you mean by this, but if she had a latex allergy, there are non-latex condoms as well. Either way, there is no excuse for not using one.

> Or maybe they were one of the 5%.

Maybe, but then you can get an abortion. And besides, the real point of this article isn't about this one individual, but about the large segment of society that is in a similar position to him. And on average, 95% of those people who had unwanted pregnancies fall into the "lack of or incorrect use of contraception" category.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#80

Post by ericabiz »

mrow84 wrote: post #57
ericabiz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely curious as to why people believe that it is 100% up to "luck" that some people are successful and others are not. If it was "luck", wouldn't CEOs be evenly distributed amongst minorities, men, and women? Or at least per the population distribution? Or are white males just that much more "lucky" than women and minorities? If you think answering those questions is tough, you and I are on the same page--th…

What is the converse to "luck" in your argument? Is it effort, or work, or something like that? If so, it seems that you are saying that white males just put more effort in than other people. I'm not convinced that that is true. In my opinion, when averaged over the population, a significant component of individual success is "luck", that being the opportunities that are presented to certain individuals, and not to o…

It starts with a belief that you can be one of those successful people. That you can do this.

If you believe you are lucky, you are more lucky. Here's the study behind that (PDF): http://richardwiseman.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/the_luck_f...

I also believe that, in a similar manner, people who believe they have what it takes to be successful (whatever that is in their minds) are more likely to be successful.

I went through most of my teens/20s with pretty bad beliefs about myself. I was a college dropout, a woman in a male-dominated industry, fighting with depression and (then-undiagnosed) ADHD. When the tech industry crashed in 2001-2002 I couldn't even get an interview for a job. I did not believe I could be successful.

Slowly, though the years, I started changing those beliefs, and as I did, more opportunities opened up for me. Now, I'm able to mentor others (especially women) who want to get into development. One of the things I always work with people on is believing that they can do it with what they have, that they don't need to be or do something that is "more" in order to be successful.

My inner outlook changed my external life. I had to change my beliefs before my external reality changed. Sitting where I was in 1999, I'm not sure I would have believed that--but I do now.

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