So let me get this straight. This guy got a girl who wasn't (or isn't anymore) his wife pregnant when he was 20 and didn't have a college degree. No shit it's going to be hard to get along. For fuck's sake, you can get FREE condoms from Planned Parenthood or another local health clinic. The sense of entitlement people have is just astonishing to me.
What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty
31–40 of 115 posts
Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
> things were miserable in the Valley--and my salary as a developer was still only $49,500/year then. You were making $50k - (in 2001?) - that's $65k in 2012 dollars. This guy is making $16,800 ($1,400/mo). That's 4 times less than you were, and you think you're comparable?
I started out doing desktop support for $15/hour. (I actually think I started out making less, but I'm not sure how much "less" was--perhaps $12/hour? so I quoted the higher number.) $49,500/year was after I spent over a year learning development, and our startup got bought out by a huge company, and I interviewed into a role at the big company as a developer. I also started out working for a subcontractor, much like…
> I started out doing desktop support for $15/hour.
$15/hour * 40 hours a week * 52 weeks = $31k in 2001 dollars = $40,000 in 2012 dollars.
That's still more that double Manny's income.
> Manny also has lower expenses than I did, since he lives with his mom
A person living on the streets has lower expenses than you too, but that doesn't mean it's by choice or a good thing.
Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty
#33It's interesting to note that this guy NEVER gets more than 30 hours. This is most likely to make sure the employee can't be considered full-time. I'm sure Google would rather hire 15 guys at 40-60 hours instead of 40 guys at 20 hours, but the sad reality is that the costs of compliance for a full-time employee are just not worth it.
True. That's partially due to Obamacare. If more than 30 hours, the employer has to provide coverage, which greatly increases the cost of that employee.
Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty
#34I never know what to make of these articles. I started out with low pay in Silicon Valley, too; I took a job at a startup in 1999 making $15/hour doing IT desktop support. In 2002 (edit: this was 2002, not 2001), when I quit to do consulting and start my own company, things were miserable in the Valley--and my salary as a developer was still only $49,500/year then. I am a college dropout. By traditional standards, th…
It's not clear to me how your life experience in Silicon Valley is at all comparable to the experience of the man in this story. You mention that he has a college degree and, in my opinion, imply that he should be doing better than he is. The article clearly states that he recently finished college (this semester) and has already moved on to full-time work. So he is doing better and has already left this part-time position. I couldn't find any reference to this man's interest in software development or administration in the text.
Minimum wage was still insufficient for this person to support themselves and their family without supplementing with a food pantry. I suspect that in 1999, this was also the case.
Further, the point is also made that this large and wealthy company is saving money by dividing their workforce into two classes: employees and contractors. Certainly this is nothing new but it is an important point, for instance, below is an article about how Amazon is agressively hiring more and more contractors.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/01/week-amazo...
I don't really believe you were trying to say that anyone with sufficient drive can be a CEO with a seven figure salary, but that is how it came off. Clearly there are not enough CEO positions for everyone that would like one, regardless of their skills or credentials.
Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
> things were miserable in the Valley--and my salary as a developer was still only $49,500/year then. You were making $50k - (in 2001?) - that's $65k in 2012 dollars. This guy is making $16,800 ($1,400/mo). That's 4 times less than you were, and you think you're comparable?
I started out doing desktop support for $15/hour. (I actually think I started out making less, but I'm not sure how much "less" was--perhaps $12/hour? so I quoted the higher number.) $49,500/year was after I spent over a year learning development, and our startup got bought out by a huge company, and I interviewed into a role at the big company as a developer. I also started out working for a subcontractor, much like…
Is the solution for everyone to be a developer? What would that world look like?
The world still needs people to do jobs like security, burger flipping, and stocking shelves until everything is automated.
It's not even necessarily the pay level that is exploitative. It's the lack of job security and benefits that was once commonplace when a large percentage of the workforce was union.
Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty
#36/s
Does anybody see a link to this guys github profile? I wonder how far along he is on any side projects that he's working on. Surely he must hang out at any of the many coworking spaces in SF on the weekend, right?
I don't mean to be crass here, but...there are SO MANY programs available for this guy to learn to code, and then get the employee benefit of taking home free food from his employer (seriously? He's upset they don't let him take free food?)
I don't really buy the excuse anymore that people are just being held down by "the system", especially in tech.
I've tried with /so many/ people who are in similar "woe is me" situations to teach them to program. I've bought VPSs for them, I've set up curricula for them, I've invited them to hackathons, offered to work on projects with them, etc. etc. etc.
And they don't take it.
One friend, who I got a job with my employer as a part time support person, needed help building his resume. At the time, I was building a new mail server for us, and I told him I wanted him to help me with it so that he could add some linux sys admin work to his resume.
Did he accept it? Nope! He spent his time at home watching Netflix and playing WoW, or age of empires or something.
A month later these people are on facebook complaining about how the evil wealthy people are holding them down.
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He's working 30 hours a week, and lives with his mom. C'mon, man, you're being handed the ability to learn to code and build a github profile of a freaking golden platter. Get to it! Or...stop complaining about making $18/hr and only getting to /eat/ the free gourmet buffet, when you wish you could take it home.
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Furthermore, move out of the bay area, man! That's one of the most expensive places to live in the country! Go move to Iowa, or North Dakota. Those places have high qualities of life, good wages, and low costs of living.
The Bay is one of the most desirable places in the WORLD to live. I'd love to have sympathy for a guy making $18/hr and living the San Jose, but I just can't bring myself to.
Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty
#37Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
I started out doing desktop support for $15/hour. (I actually think I started out making less, but I'm not sure how much "less" was--perhaps $12/hour? so I quoted the higher number.) $49,500/year was after I spent over a year learning development, and our startup got bought out by a huge company, and I interviewed into a role at the big company as a developer. I also started out working for a subcontractor, much like…
> I started out doing desktop support for $15/hour. $15/hour * 40 hours a week * 52 weeks = $31k in 2001 dollars = $40,000 in 2012 dollars. That's still more that double Manny's income. > Manny also has lower expenses than I did, since he lives with his mom A person living on the streets has lower expenses than you too, but that doesn't mean it's by choice or a good thing.
I didn't work full-time when I started there. College student, remember? I didn't have a full-time gig until I dropped out of college in 2001. BigCo refused to bring on part-time workers, so I quit school and interviewed into the developer role, which was FT and necessitated me dropping out of school.
Edited my previous post to reflect correct timeline:
1999: Moved to Valley; got a job doing desktop support at a startup
2000: Startup gets bought by BigCo
2001: BigCo says they won't hire PT employees. I quit school to take $49,500/yr FT dev job at BigCo
2002: Quit dev job and started working on my own stuff (I had paying customers for my company in 2001, but 2002 was when I finally quit and went into consulting and web hosting full time.)
Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm genuinely curious as to why people believe that it is 100% up to "luck" that some people are successful and others are not. If it was "luck", wouldn't CEOs be evenly distributed amongst minorities, men, and women? Or at least per the population distribution? Or are white males just that much more "lucky" than women and minorities? If you think answering those questions is tough, you and I are on the same page--th…
It's luck because plenty of people do exactly the same thing as you and me. Work hard, take what they can get, have ambition and yet still don't make it. If you want to see this in it's purest form look at music and art. Plenty of amazing hardworking musicians that will never make a dime. Plenty of hacks who will.
Why do people always reference hard work?
Ditch diggers work hard. Migrant farm laborers work hard.
So what?
Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty
#40I never know what to make of these articles. I started out with low pay in Silicon Valley, too; I took a job at a startup in 1999 making $15/hour doing IT desktop support. In 2002 (edit: this was 2002, not 2001), when I quit to do consulting and start my own company, things were miserable in the Valley--and my salary as a developer was still only $49,500/year then. I am a college dropout. By traditional standards, th…
Inflation-adjusted 1999 $15 is $20.98 today. Conversely, today's $15/hr is $10.72/hr in 1999 dollars.
Also note that he's not allowed to work over 30 hours, so even at a somewhat comparative actual rate, he has an upper limit on weekly income.