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What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

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Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#21

Post by d6928230 »

nickelite wrote: post #7

I don't think it's a bad thing that Google treats each employee differently. There's no reason why contractors should have the same benefits as regular employees. Google is a business, not a charity. When Google gives engineers to-go boxes, they don't do it because they like them better than other employees, they do it because it's a competitive market out there, and they want to keep the best. Besides, maybe letting…

Actually, at the Googleplex, when you see someone boarding an early shuttle with a stack of to-go boxes for their friends and neighbors it's most commonly a contractor.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#22

Post by scelerat »

nickelite wrote: post #7

I don't think it's a bad thing that Google treats each employee differently. There's no reason why contractors should have the same benefits as regular employees. Google is a business, not a charity. When Google gives engineers to-go boxes, they don't do it because they like them better than other employees, they do it because it's a competitive market out there, and they want to keep the best. Besides, maybe letting…

> If the security guard wants to earn more, he should either start a business on his own or improve his skills to get a better job.

Part of the reason people are engineers is because they've been exposed to good examples and opportunities over a lifetime, not because they are especially or particularly motivated over anyone else. There are all sorts of factors which lead to people having the profession that they do. Work ethic is one among many, and probably not very high on the list.

And, being taller and prettier is absolutely a predictor for being better paid.

http://www.livescience.com/5552-taller-people-earn-money.htm... http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405297020368750...

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#23

Post by grecy »

ericabiz wrote: post #16

I never know what to make of these articles. I started out with low pay in Silicon Valley, too; I took a job at a startup in 1999 making $15/hour doing IT desktop support. In 2002 (edit: this was 2002, not 2001), when I quit to do consulting and start my own company, things were miserable in the Valley--and my salary as a developer was still only $49,500/year then. I am a college dropout. By traditional standards, th…

> things were miserable in the Valley--and my salary as a developer was still only $49,500/year then.

You were making $50k - (in 2001?) - that's $65k in 2012 dollars.

This guy is making $16,800 ($1,400/mo). That's 4 times less than you were, and you think you're comparable?

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#24

Post by stephencanon »

ericabiz wrote: post #16

I never know what to make of these articles. I started out with low pay in Silicon Valley, too; I took a job at a startup in 1999 making $15/hour doing IT desktop support. In 2002 (edit: this was 2002, not 2001), when I quit to do consulting and start my own company, things were miserable in the Valley--and my salary as a developer was still only $49,500/year then. I am a college dropout. By traditional standards, th…

If you really want to pull yourself out of poverty and you’re very lucky, all doors can be open to you.

Not everyone will be as lucky as you were.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#25

Post by menacingly »

angersock wrote: post #10
altoz wrote: post #6

It's interesting to note that this guy NEVER gets more than 30 hours. This is most likely to make sure the employee can't be considered full-time. I'm sure Google would rather hire 15 guys at 40-60 hours instead of 40 guys at 20 hours, but the sad reality is that the costs of compliance for a full-time employee are just not worth it.

but the sad reality is that the costs of compliance for a full-time employee are just not worth it. My heart bleeds for these poor, hamstrung corporations.

Does it bleed for the human consequences of the very rational decisions they'll make in that environment?

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#26

Post by ericabiz »

grecy wrote: post #23
ericabiz wrote: post #16

I never know what to make of these articles. I started out with low pay in Silicon Valley, too; I took a job at a startup in 1999 making $15/hour doing IT desktop support. In 2002 (edit: this was 2002, not 2001), when I quit to do consulting and start my own company, things were miserable in the Valley--and my salary as a developer was still only $49,500/year then. I am a college dropout. By traditional standards, th…

> things were miserable in the Valley--and my salary as a developer was still only $49,500/year then. You were making $50k - (in 2001?) - that's $65k in 2012 dollars. This guy is making $16,800 ($1,400/mo). That's 4 times less than you were, and you think you're comparable?

I started out doing desktop support for $15/hour. (I actually think I started out making less, but I'm not sure how much "less" was--perhaps $12/hour? so I quoted the higher number.) $49,500/year was after I spent over a year learning development, and our startup got bought out by a huge company, and I interviewed into a role at the big company as a developer.

I also started out working for a subcontractor, much like Manny in the article. Indeed, I do think it's comparable.

Manny also has lower expenses than I did, since he lives with his mom, and in a traditional way of looking at things, he has more "opportunities" open to him since he has a college degree and I was a dropout.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#27

Post by chadwickthebold »

dkokelley wrote: post #19
olefoo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google has no idea what this person makes. They can certainly find out. Just like ethically sourced coffee beans are a thing; ethically sourced menial labour can be a thing. It's hip and cool to use ethically sourced labor that isn't toxic to the society you live in. :-)

How would you define an ethical wage for menial labor?

How about a wage that was at least a decent amount above the federal poverty level?

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#28

Post by ericabiz »

stephencanon wrote: post #24
ericabiz wrote: post #16

I never know what to make of these articles. I started out with low pay in Silicon Valley, too; I took a job at a startup in 1999 making $15/hour doing IT desktop support. In 2002 (edit: this was 2002, not 2001), when I quit to do consulting and start my own company, things were miserable in the Valley--and my salary as a developer was still only $49,500/year then. I am a college dropout. By traditional standards, th…

If you really want to pull yourself out of poverty and you’re very lucky , all doors can be open to you. Not everyone will be as lucky as you were.

I'm genuinely curious as to why people believe that it is 100% up to "luck" that some people are successful and others are not.

If it was "luck", wouldn't CEOs be evenly distributed amongst minorities, men, and women? Or at least per the population distribution? Or are white males just that much more "lucky" than women and minorities?

If you think answering those questions is tough, you and I are on the same page--that's why I don't ascribe this to "luck."

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#29

Post by ThomPete »

ericabiz wrote: post #16

I never know what to make of these articles. I started out with low pay in Silicon Valley, too; I took a job at a startup in 1999 making $15/hour doing IT desktop support. In 2002 (edit: this was 2002, not 2001), when I quit to do consulting and start my own company, things were miserable in the Valley--and my salary as a developer was still only $49,500/year then. I am a college dropout. By traditional standards, th…

The thing is that there are plenty of people who did everything you did and still didn't have any luck, just as there are people who did it the "right way" and still didn't luck out.

You are 100% the creator of your own happiness, not your financial success in life.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#30

Post by ThomPete »

ericabiz wrote: post #28
stephencanon wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you really want to pull yourself out of poverty and you’re very lucky , all doors can be open to you. Not everyone will be as lucky as you were.

I'm genuinely curious as to why people believe that it is 100% up to "luck" that some people are successful and others are not. If it was "luck", wouldn't CEOs be evenly distributed amongst minorities, men, and women? Or at least per the population distribution? Or are white males just that much more "lucky" than women and minorities? If you think answering those questions is tough, you and I are on the same page--th…

It's luck because plenty of people do exactly the same thing as you and me. Work hard, take what they can get, have ambition and yet still don't make it.

If you want to see this in it's purest form look at music and art. Plenty of amazing hardworking musicians that will never make a dime. Plenty of hacks who will.

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