Live data from Hacker News

What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

npr.org

11–20 of 115 posts

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#11
I dislike the implication that external contractors are basically second-class employees that are being exploited by the hiring company. Google has no idea what this person makes. Google hired a security company to perform a service. Event/site security is not Google's core competency.

I am well aware of the external contractor dynamic. I work at a small company that provides services to $Fortune_500_company. My access badge is a different color than $Fortune_500_company employees, and I am not allowed to partake in certain employee perks. In fact, $Fortune_500_company is very clear that despite working on their computer, having their email address, having an assigned seat at their campus, and being on their phone system, I am not an employee of theirs. I am OK with this.

There are plenty of ways to be screwed in your career. Your contractor/staff status should be considered an unrelated byproduct.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#12

Is it better to have """low pay""" in San Jose or low pay in Tijuana?

Tijuana. Is there any question?

The question is "What is the question?"

- Would you rather be on $24k/p/a in Tijuana?

- Would you rather be in the bottom 10% income bracket in Tijuana?

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#13

I dislike the implication that external contractors are basically second-class employees that are being exploited by the hiring company. Google has no idea what this person makes. Google hired a security company to perform a service. Event/site security is not Google's core competency. I am well aware of the external contractor dynamic. I work at a small company that provides services to $Fortune_500_company. My acce…

> Google has no idea what this person makes.

They can certainly find out. Just like ethically sourced coffee beans are a thing; ethically sourced menial labour can be a thing. It's hip and cool to use ethically sourced labor that isn't toxic to the society you live in. :-)

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#14
I work for a major telecom company doing field service.

I'm a contractor, I get a fair wage, but not much else.

Real employees get, company truck, 20% more pay, 100% paid benefits, company phone and a bunch of intangibles.

Like a good example when my manager goes on vacation even though I drive my own vehicle and am paid mileage, none of my mileage requests are paid, right now I'm floating about a month worth of mileage and other expenses, to the tune of 700+ dollars. If I were an employee, I would have a company vehicle, company gas card, company expense card, and it wouldn't be coming out of my pocket.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#15

I dislike the implication that external contractors are basically second-class employees that are being exploited by the hiring company. Google has no idea what this person makes. Google hired a security company to perform a service. Event/site security is not Google's core competency. I am well aware of the external contractor dynamic. I work at a small company that provides services to $Fortune_500_company. My acce…

"Google hired a security company to perform a service."

That's kind of a cop out. Like saying Apple isn't responsible for the treatment of the workers in Foxconn in any way (though I am sure there are some people who agree with that point of view).

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#16
I never know what to make of these articles. I started out with low pay in Silicon Valley, too; I took a job at a startup in 1999 making $15/hour doing IT desktop support. In 2002 (edit: this was 2002, not 2001), when I quit to do consulting and start my own company, things were miserable in the Valley--and my salary as a developer was still only $49,500/year then.

I am a college dropout. By traditional standards, then, this guy has more than I do: He has a college degree. Working at a tech company, he had to see that the developers/sysadmins/computer folks made more than he did.

I find this juxtaposition interesting because, certainly, a similar article could have been written about me in 1999. $15 an hour was a terrible wage then in the Valley, too.

Faced with something similar, I asked several of the developers at our company to teach me development. They were amused at this young 18-year-old girl asking them what a "for loop" was. But they taught me.

It took me a while to pick up Linux system administration, bash shell scripting, Perl and PHP (this was in 1999-2000.) When I dropped out of school in 2001, my parents cut me off financially, so I shared tiny apartments, slept on couches, and made ends meet.

Now, at age 32, I've bootstrapped a startup to a 7-figure sale and am now the CEO of a funded startup.

For most of my life, I've dealt with depression and believing I was not "good enough." In that way, I empathize with Manny. If he's reading this, I would like to say to him: I stand here as proof that a minority with no college degree and no formal education can make it in this world. You live in Silicon Valley. If you really want to pull yourself out of poverty, all doors can be open to you. The first step is believing that you can do it.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#17

I don't think it's a bad thing that Google treats each employee differently. There's no reason why contractors should have the same benefits as regular employees. Google is a business, not a charity. When Google gives engineers to-go boxes, they don't do it because they like them better than other employees, they do it because it's a competitive market out there, and they want to keep the best. Besides, maybe letting…

> Besides, maybe letting contractors take food home is too expensive for the company. Maybe they couldn't afford free food at all if they give to EVERYONE.

It's because a company needs to keep a very clear distinction between employees and not-employees. If a to-go box is an employee benefit, and those boxes are given to contractors who are not employees, then there is the risk that a court will decide that the not-employee is indeed an employee. After that the employee says, "where are my retroactive stock options?" For reference, see Microsoft in the 90s.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#18
post #6

It's interesting to note that this guy NEVER gets more than 30 hours. This is most likely to make sure the employee can't be considered full-time. I'm sure Google would rather hire 15 guys at 40-60 hours instead of 40 guys at 20 hours, but the sad reality is that the costs of compliance for a full-time employee are just not worth it.

Google hasn't hired anybody. The security company was awarded a contract to provide security services, which is fulfilled by employing some people at "But Google is benefiting from this exploitation!" you might say.

Yes. Google can pay less for security services because the guards ultimately cost less. If the guards worked 40 hours/week, the contract cost would have to increase, and another lower cost security company may have won the contract. The reality is that security services are only worth so much. Not every job (even at full time) can or should be expected to pay a livable wage.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#19
post #13

I dislike the implication that external contractors are basically second-class employees that are being exploited by the hiring company. Google has no idea what this person makes. Google hired a security company to perform a service. Event/site security is not Google's core competency. I am well aware of the external contractor dynamic. I work at a small company that provides services to $Fortune_500_company. My acce…

> Google has no idea what this person makes. They can certainly find out. Just like ethically sourced coffee beans are a thing; ethically sourced menial labour can be a thing. It's hip and cool to use ethically sourced labor that isn't toxic to the society you live in. :-)

How would you define an ethical wage for menial labor?

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#20
post #6

It's interesting to note that this guy NEVER gets more than 30 hours. This is most likely to make sure the employee can't be considered full-time. I'm sure Google would rather hire 15 guys at 40-60 hours instead of 40 guys at 20 hours, but the sad reality is that the costs of compliance for a full-time employee are just not worth it.

>> costs of compliance for a full-time employee

I'm not sure this is the driver. Instead, the primary factor is likely the fact that hourly employees cost a 50% more the moment they cross 40 hours in a week.

>> Google would rather hire 15 guys at 40-60 hours instead of 40 guys at 20 hours

Not if they are paid hourly, they wouldn't. It would just be throwing money away.

In my way-back days working hourly jobs in retail/fast food/etc., we would game this by trying to get as many excess hours as possible early in the week, so that we could get to 40+ hours by the 5th/6th day. Then, we'd aggressively try to get extra shifts from people who called in sick, etc. But management always tried to prevent this.

Post reply on HN