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What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

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Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#61

Is it better to have """low pay""" in San Jose or low pay in Tijuana?

It's interesting you choose to compare a developed country to a developing country.

You're comparing a team that is supposedly in the A league to a team in the B league, then saying the former is good because it beats the latter. That's nonsensical.

For a real comparison, you must compare A teams to A teams.

The question should be: Is it better to have "low pay" in San Jose or low pay in Australia/NZ/UK/Japan/Germany/France/Netherlands/etc./etc.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's luck because plenty of people do exactly the same thing as you and me. Work hard, take what they can get, have ambition and yet still don't make it. If you want to see this in it's purest form look at music and art. Plenty of amazing hardworking musicians that will never make a dime. Plenty of hacks who will.

Why do people always reference hard work? Ditch diggers work hard. Migrant farm laborers work hard. So what?

[deleted]

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you really want to pull yourself out of poverty and you’re very lucky , all doors can be open to you. Not everyone will be as lucky as you were.

I'm genuinely curious as to why people believe that it is 100% up to "luck" that some people are successful and others are not. If it was "luck", wouldn't CEOs be evenly distributed amongst minorities, men, and women? Or at least per the population distribution? Or are white males just that much more "lucky" than women and minorities? If you think answering those questions is tough, you and I are on the same page--th…

Nobody thinks it's 100% up to luck, but luck does play a huge part in it if you call "luck" all those things which are beyond your control and which you can take neither credit nor blame for.

The simple fact is that a desire and willingness to succeed is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition for success. There are many people who are successful because they were born into the right families and given the right opportunities, and there are many more who struggle all their lives in poverty for lack of same, despite a sincere and demonstrated desire to succeed and more hard work than the vast majority of the people on this site will ever know.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#64

So let me get this straight. This guy got a girl who wasn't (or isn't anymore) his wife pregnant when he was 20 and didn't have a college degree. No shit it's going to be hard to get along. For fuck's sake , you can get FREE condoms from Planned Parenthood or another local health clinic. The sense of entitlement people have is just astonishing to me.

I think you're forgetting the phrase "shit happens". There is no way of knowing what happened to the mom or their relationship. And I don't think it matters either. How would his having a wife have any impact on his situation? If she didn't work, it would be another person to take care of. If she did work, they'd have the same childcare problems mentioned in the article. He seems like he's working hard to take care o…

> I think you're forgetting the phrase "shit happens".

Oh come on. There is no excuse for not using contraception when you're not financially, emotionally, and maritally prepared to have a child. I don't know about this particular man's case, but 95% of unwanted pregnancies are due to failure to use contraception or use it properly [0], which is nothing more or less than sheer irresponsibility on the part of the future parents.

> How would his having a wife have any impact on his situation?

Seriously? It's much easier to raise a child when both parents are present. It gives you more flexibility in terms of work, even if both parents are working. You save a lot of money because you're not paying individual rents. You save money on food as well. You get tax benefits from the government. If one of you has a job with health insurance that includes dependents, then the other gets it too. The list goes on and on.

> He seems like he's working hard to take care of his kid but like most people wishes the huge company he works for would help a little more. Where's the entitlement?

He irresponsibly had a child when he wasn't prepared to raise one, and is now expecting others to help him out. That is entitlement.

0: http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/2008/05/09/ImprovingContracep...

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#65

So let me get this straight. This guy got a girl who wasn't (or isn't anymore) his wife pregnant when he was 20 and didn't have a college degree. No shit it's going to be hard to get along. For fuck's sake , you can get FREE condoms from Planned Parenthood or another local health clinic. The sense of entitlement people have is just astonishing to me.

Let us get you straight.

"This guy" has a "sense of entitlement" in your little world....because he's taking care of his daughter, worked at a menial job to make ends meets and while he kept studyting and just got his college degree, programs on the side, just got a new job, and took the time and energy to try to improve conditions for his fellow employees....and then geniuses like you whine about "free condoms" and "entitlement"?

Please. Just delete your comment.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#66
post #36

/s Does anybody see a link to this guys github profile? I wonder how far along he is on any side projects that he's working on. Surely he must hang out at any of the many coworking spaces in SF on the weekend, right? I don't mean to be crass here, but...there are SO MANY programs available for this guy to learn to code, and then get the employee benefit of taking home free food from his employer (seriously? He's upse…

Furthermore, move out of the bay area, man! That's one of the most expensive places to live in the country!

Whenever I see these articles, I think about what makes the Bay Area expensive. The key factor is housing prices.

There's a limited amount of land available near the centers of SV because of mountains and natural areas. Supply is strictly constrained and demand is very strong because of industry growth. The result is spiraling prices far above what would seem reasonable elsewhere.

Supply constraint isn't really a natural limit, though. Bay Area housing is spread out, low density, even sprawling. Even San Francisco is only half the density of Brooklyn. San Jose and San Mateo county mostly look like a suburb of Omaha.

Market demand would indicate big profit opportunities for anyone who can buy up a subdivision and build a neighborhood of three story flats on wide sidewalks and two lane streets. That would be over double the density of San Francisco and ten times the density of a typical San Mateo subdivision. You could easily afford to buy up property, knock down current buildings and carry away a huge profit. But you can't get permission from planning boards.

Or you could build like Tokyo, which is a little less dense than Brooklyn. You'd make free standing two or three story single family homes with very little yard on 15' single lane streets and small blocks. That's the same density as Brooklyn, 2.5 times San Francisco.

Or you could even build like San Francisco, but in San Jose. That's efficient enough in land per housing unit to make big money.

But it's all prohibited.

The Bay Area has chosen to be unlivable and unpleasant by its choice of public officials. Those city officials have prohibited the practices that make city living affordable. The result of bad public officials is an unhappy public.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people always reference hard work? Ditch diggers work hard. Migrant farm laborers work hard. So what?

Hard work should have value and should be rewarded with a wage that one can live on. While the person in this article is living, they are still not earning enough to support themselves and their family without supplementing from a food pantry. Because this is a contract position they are not allowed to work more than thirty hours a week. I would argue that this shows that this is not a living wage.

And the person featured in this article is not living?

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you define an ethical wage for menial labor?

How about a wage that was at least a decent amount above the federal poverty level?

Why?

1. Federal poverty level isn't a term [1]... >The poverty guidelines are sometimes loosely referred to as the “federal poverty level” (FPL), but that phrase is ambiguous and should be avoided, especially in situations (e.g., legislative or administrative) where precision is important.

2. Government instructing market isn't in the constitution, nor is it in Free Market Capitalism, nor the concept of a Democratic Republic...

[1] http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/13poverty.cfm

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're forgetting the phrase "shit happens". There is no way of knowing what happened to the mom or their relationship. And I don't think it matters either. How would his having a wife have any impact on his situation? If she didn't work, it would be another person to take care of. If she did work, they'd have the same childcare problems mentioned in the article. He seems like he's working hard to take care o…

> I think you're forgetting the phrase "shit happens". Oh come on. There is no excuse for not using contraception when you're not financially, emotionally, and maritally prepared to have a child. I don't know about this particular man's case, but 95% of unwanted pregnancies are due to failure to use contraception or use it properly [0], which is nothing more or less than sheer irresponsibility on the part of the futu…

"I don't know about this particular man's case..." followed by "He irresponsibly had a child...." [emphasis added]

Do you even read your own writing from one paragraph to the next?

How in the fuck do you have any clue whatsoever about what happened to "this guy" before and at the time he had his child?

The only "entitlement" here is you making really amazing, shitty assumptions. Over and over.

Re: What It's Like to Live on Low Pay in a Land of Plenty

#70

This is explored to a degree in a pop psychology book by Daniel Gilbert called "Stumbling on Happiness". There are certainly better sources, such as the papers Gilbert uses as his primary sources, but the book is an accessible way to learn about the high degree to which our happiness depends on subjective interpretation of our self-comparison to others. There's a theory out there that we evaluate ourselves mostly aga…

That was your takeaway from the article? Really?
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