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A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

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Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#221

Post by clarky07 »

anigbrowl wrote: post #211
clarky07 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

depends on where he is. cost of prisons varies wildly by state and city, which i find to be a bit bizarre. According to some quick research, it can be as low as 13k a year (Louisiana) to as high as 47k a year (California) and even on smaller levels 167k (New York City). 30 years in Louisiana is just over 2 years in new york city.

True, but bear in mind that elder/end of life medical care tends to be especially expensive, so I think the total is realistic. I don't find it so odd that cost varies - consider land price, cost of living (for prison staff), heating (much more expensive in northerly latitudes), and so on.

I don't find it odd that it varies, just that it varies so wildly. well over 10x seems unreasonable. If it is an area that is that expensive, perhaps it makes sense to transport the prisoners a bit to a less expensive area.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#222

Post by jrockway »

joshfraser wrote: post #76
jrockway wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the underlying problem is privatized prisons. The underlying problems are our unconscious biases, political pandering ("tough on crime!") and weaknesses in our educational and healthcare systems.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/laura-carlsen/immigration-refo...

Sure, but privatized prisons would be just as happy to house rich white people as they would be to house poor immigrants. They want their prisons full, but that doesn't explain why people commit crimes, how people are caught, arrested, tried, convicted, and sentenced.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#224

Post by clarky07 »

eropple wrote: post #218
clarky07 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are suggesting that everyone who has ever committed rape is mentally ill. That seems like a stretch to me. I'd suggest there are a lot of people that are simply bad people who like to have forceful sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with them. I also don't think all murderers are mentally ill. Some people just have a motive and are willing to cross a line. I'm not interested in vengeance, and nothing a…

Being "willing to cross a line" is mental illness. It's the fucking definition of antisocial personality disorder. Get them the help they need, train them to be productive members of society (like we should for everyone ), and guess what? The problem goes away. You will certainly have an incurable segment of the population who, after actually being treated by professionals and educated, cannot integrate with society-…

Are you suggesting that there should be no prisons at all, and just mental hospitals?

what do we do with "You will certainly have an incurable segment of the population who, after actually being treated by professionals and educated, cannot integrate with society"?

Also, what do we do with those that are extremely violent and prone to escape? It seems reasonable that a tougher layer of security is warranted in some cases.

>"Putting someone in a concrete box where one's safety is utterly left up to chance is nothing but vengeful and retaliatory."

First, I'm not convinced that our prison system is quite as bad as that statement. It seems a bit of hyperbole to me. I'd agree that it certainly isn't great, but perhaps not quite that bad.

Also, it seems that we don't really have to disagree about anything, you are just reading too much into what I've said. I'm in favor of trying to rehabilitate people, and I'm also in favor of improving our prisons. I'd classify someone convicted of rape several times as "an incurable segment of the population who, after actually being treated by professionals and educated, cannot integrate with society."

I also think there are way too many people in prison in general, specifically in relation to the absurd war on drugs. I suspect we agree on that.

>It is designed to inflict misery and nothing else.

I think it is designed as punishment for crime. That mostly seems reasonable. I think while we're at it, we should work to try and rehabilitate them better than we do, but no need to put them in a penthouse suite. Part of it is deterrence. All crime is not mental illness. I promise you that. Much of it is committed by highly intelligent people who just didn't expect to get caught. Much of it is committed by not very intelligent people who just didn't expect to get caught.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#225

Post by Confusion »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #47

My thoughts on the best and the worst: > Anthony Jackson has a sixth-grade education and worked as a cook. He was convicted of burglary for stealing a wallet from a Myrtle Beach hotel room when he was 44 years old. According to prosecutors, he woke two vacationing golfers as he entered the room and stole a wallet, then pretended to be a security guard and ran away. Police arrested him when he tried to use the stolen…

  At what point does society get to tell people "you know what, knock it off"?
In other countries, much, much later. And they have less crime. Blanket laws with such severe penalties always have more downside than upside. The ability to dispense such severe sentences should be in the hands of a judge that can weigh each case individually.

If you believe someone deserves life in prison for two burglaries and a case of theft, you are being inhumane. You need to change the system or these people, such that they don't feel the need to steal. That takes time and several moments to check whether it worked. Hell, most countries don't even have true 'life in prison' sentences and they manage to be safer than the US.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#226

Post by unethical_ban »

eropple wrote: post #218
clarky07 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are suggesting that everyone who has ever committed rape is mentally ill. That seems like a stretch to me. I'd suggest there are a lot of people that are simply bad people who like to have forceful sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with them. I also don't think all murderers are mentally ill. Some people just have a motive and are willing to cross a line. I'm not interested in vengeance, and nothing a…

Being "willing to cross a line" is mental illness. It's the fucking definition of antisocial personality disorder. Get them the help they need, train them to be productive members of society (like we should for everyone ), and guess what? The problem goes away. You will certainly have an incurable segment of the population who, after actually being treated by professionals and educated, cannot integrate with society-…

Certain crimes are deemed inexcusable. Murder someone because they're black: Horrible. Steal a wallet because you have an addiction: forgivable. Rape someone after being convicted and released from two prior rapes: Inexcusable.

Not every "mentally ill" person is curable, nor can every mentally ill person be trusted at an attempt for re-integration with society.

Funny how you're defending the right of serial rapists to seek help and therapy while you "resign yourself" to the fact that people who don't "get it" are shitty humans.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#227

Post by clarky07 »

whiddershins wrote: post #210
clarky07 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but that isn't what the comment i replied to said at all. And while perhaps life is overkill, I think repeatedly breaking and entering does in fact deserve a long time in jail.

I posted another comment to this effect, but "a long time" is a concept that I think has become distorted in our culture. If you or I got even 6 months in jail for stealing a wallet, I am pretty sure it would feel like "a long time." This business of decades or life imprisonment for property crimes is draconian, we have just collectively lost perspective. IMHO.

perhaps you are right, but "stealing a wallet" is minimizing the severity of what happened. Breaking and entering is different than being a pickpocket. Grabbing a wallet off a table in a restaurant is different than someone breaking into your house. That seems obvious to me.

I'd also hope that after your "long time of 6 months in jail for stealing a wallet" you'd realize that it was a poor choice and not do it again. Certainly after the 2nd time you were convicted and sent to jail it should sink in right? If 3 times isn't enough, where do we draw the line?

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#228

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

fleitz wrote: post #173
latch wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to distill these issues and hold a self-righteous opinion, but I personally find most too complex to form anything resembling an educated opinion. Take land mines. I've heard that they play a critical role in South Korea's defense, which was a major reason Clinton didn't sign. Military experts talk about how it's an effective tool that, when used responsibly, can benefit civilians more than harm them. They…

I'm pretty sure North Korea used the exact same reasoning when they didn't sign.

Point being?

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#229

Post by nhaehnle »

lancewiggs wrote: post #165
rfnslyr wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anybody else constantly live in a state of guilt? So many lives lost and wars fought just to get us to where we are, and we reap the benefits. I feel so guilty for having a good paying job in the city. I'm not adding any value to the world, none at all. I tinker with a few codes every day and make silly amounts of money, when there's people struggling to put food on the table working 18 hour days. I need to do s…

I really liked this "own a problem" perspective from an HR post (1). Pick a problem to help solve, prioritise that and deprioritise everything else to solve it. You can also shift to work for an institution which is genuinely trying to do good, such as the World Bank or a not-for-profit. Or you can do what you can from within your own organisation to get them to be working to improve the world rather than take advant…

"... such as the World Bank ..."

Just keep in mind the World Bank is considered by many as an instrumental part of a quasi-colonial system of institutions that is set up to exploit the third world through their advocacy for unfavorable debt and a certain economical bias.

I'm sure they also do some good, but they are at least a somewhat ambiguous organization.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#230

Post by chc »

Anderkent wrote: post #53
thaumasiotes wrote: post #47

My thoughts on the best and the worst: > Anthony Jackson has a sixth-grade education and worked as a cook. He was convicted of burglary for stealing a wallet from a Myrtle Beach hotel room when he was 44 years old. According to prosecutors, he woke two vacationing golfers as he entered the room and stole a wallet, then pretended to be a security guard and ran away. Police arrested him when he tried to use the stolen…

Uh, why would he decline to press charges? The guy stole his truck. No idea why the article calls it 'borrowing'.

If the article is to be believed, it was understood among the men that the truck was for everyone to use, and it was his intention to return the truck as they always did. If that was the case, I don't see how it meets the common definition of theft. (It may not be the case. The fact that he got convicted seems to fly in the face of the situation they describe.)
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