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A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

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Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#201

Post by pfedor »

melvinmt wrote: post #157
pfedor wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, Alabama is almost as poor as France or Japan, and Mississippi (the poorest state) is almost as poor as Spain and New Zealand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP

Eh, you're comparing PPP with GDP. Try this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomin... You'll find that France is richer than the richest US state (California).

You want per capita, otherwise you'd think China is wealthier than Switzerland. And you want PPP (though it doesn't make that much difference) since that reflects what people can actually afford. If you made $1M a month but the prices in your country were such that it would only buy dry bread and water, you'd still be poor.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#202

Post by fleitz »

joyeuse6701 wrote: post #197
fleitz wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't Snowden have to flee to China and then Russia so he could criticize his government with out fear of summary execution?

Criticism of government has it's limits. Snowden is questionable because what he said was not public knowledge and had crippling negative effects towards security of the state, but say, expressing your criticism of government by blowing up a federal building...

Similarly to how China would react to someone talking about Tianamen Square which isn't public knowledge but knowledge of it would cause a massive shit storm that would undermine the security of the state.

It's not what happened, it's the idea of one man standing up to the state that strikes fear into their hearts.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#203

Post by thaumasiotes »

andylei wrote: post #195
thaumasiotes wrote: post #47

My thoughts on the best and the worst: > Anthony Jackson has a sixth-grade education and worked as a cook. He was convicted of burglary for stealing a wallet from a Myrtle Beach hotel room when he was 44 years old. According to prosecutors, he woke two vacationing golfers as he entered the room and stole a wallet, then pretended to be a security guard and ran away. Police arrested him when he tried to use the stolen…

> I don't understand this one at all. Shouldn't the truck owner have testified on his behalf? Declined to press charges? in most cases, i think details are pretty important. here, not really. let's say he straight up stole the truck. does he deserve life in prison? doubtful > Declined to press charges? Also, i'm pretty sure this isn't a thing. Only prosecutors can decide whether they want to press charges in criminal…

> Only prosecutors can decide whether they want to press charges in criminal cases.

Yes, but it generally helps if they can produce someone who says "yes, my truck was stolen".

> in most cases, i think details are pretty important. here, not really. let's say he straight up stole the truck. does he deserve life in prison? doubtful

This is reasonable, but I think the details I wondered about are important to another issue, that of "how the heck was this guy jailed at all?"

Lacking any other evidence, I tend to lean toward the theory that he did straight up steal the truck, and the ACLU is whitewashing him, which (a) is weird, since they're not apologizing for much less sympathetic prisoners, and (b) implicates a third important issue, "can we trust the ACLU to describe its own cases?"

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#204

Post by codezero »

Mithaldu wrote: post #80
codezero wrote: post #72

I felt like the title here was misleading. They weren't sentenced to "death," as in, given a death sentence, they were sentenced to life in prison, which in some cases means they will die in prison, this is pretty different, though no less a tragedy.

Not some cases, all cases, as it's a life sentence without parole, meaning they can behave all they want in prison, they are never coming out, period. I think it's clear why this is just as good as a death sentence.

I agree but just as good as is not the same as. Death sentence is a very specific thing.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#205

Post by thaumasiotes »

humbledrone wrote: post #200
thaumasiotes wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I bet you wouldn't go for life in prison for someone who get three speeding tickets. Sure. > Once we agree that there is a line, then it just comes down to which side of the line a particular crime is on. I actually don't find this to follow, because your example is exceptionally poor. I don't favor speeding tickets at all; as far as I can see, they're just a way for governments to capriciously collect extra revenu…

> If the cost of keeping him out of it exceeds the cost he inflicts by his presence You do realize that it costs $40,000+ per year to incarcerate someone, right? So to meet your justification for imprisonment, this guy would have to be an excellent criminal. Why not just give him $40,000 per year and let him be free? He'd probably not need to burgle anymore.

> Why not just give him $40,000 per year and let him be free? He'd probably not need to burgle anymore.

If we did this, I suspect we'd see a sharp rise in burglaries.

As to the figure itself, another commenter noted that the low end of prison costs seemed to be Lousisiana, in which operating a prison cost $13K / year. That would make the per-prisoner cost much, much lower than that.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#206

Post by whiddershins »

One thing that disturbs me, after reading the comments here, and after hearing attitudes expressed by people in general: I think normal citizens massively underestimate how harsh these sentences are. Look around at your life and picture how much damage might be done by just a 6 month stint in jail. You would likely lose your job, you might lose your house, your kids. Even a month in jail would be a serious bummer for most of the people posting here.

Now, think, really picture, what a 3 year sentence would do. How hard it would be to recover from losing those years.

Now picture a 5 year, 7 year, 10 year, 15 year sentence. There is a reason Norway generally restricts its sentences to 21 years for even the most heinous crimes. The sentencing here in the US is truly draconian. It only seems proportional because we are measuring relative to what is already going on, so in context this stuff seems "not that bad."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment_in_Norway

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#208

Post by [deleted] »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #205
humbledrone wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the cost of keeping him out of it exceeds the cost he inflicts by his presence You do realize that it costs $40,000+ per year to incarcerate someone, right? So to meet your justification for imprisonment, this guy would have to be an excellent criminal. Why not just give him $40,000 per year and let him be free? He'd probably not need to burgle anymore.

> Why not just give him $40,000 per year and let him be free? He'd probably not need to burgle anymore. If we did this, I suspect we'd see a sharp rise in burglaries. As to the figure itself, another commenter noted that the low end of prison costs seemed to be Lousisiana, in which operating a prison cost $13K / year. That would make the per-prisoner cost much, much lower than that.

[deleted]

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#209

Post by ScottBurson »

noonespecial wrote: post #199

Well, we seem to be going all out defending the other amendments these days. I guess its time to add the 8th to our efforts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_...

Additionally, I don't understand why mandatory sentences aren't considered a blatant violation of the Constitutional separation of powers. Was it really the Framers' intent that the judiciary's traditional sentencing discretion could be overruled in this way? Maximum sentences are one thing, but Draconian minimums are quite something else. I wish some judges would simply refuse to impose them when they are obviously unjust, even at the cost of their judgeships. And yes, if the Eighth Amendment helps them do that, by all means let them invoke it.

I gather that at the federal level, minimum sentences are now once again considered recommendations; but that hasn't filtered down to the states yet.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#210

Post by whiddershins »

clarky07 wrote: post #108
skyraider wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a huge difference between 'going to jail' and life in prison.

Yes, but that isn't what the comment i replied to said at all. And while perhaps life is overkill, I think repeatedly breaking and entering does in fact deserve a long time in jail.

I posted another comment to this effect, but "a long time" is a concept that I think has become distorted in our culture.

If you or I got even 6 months in jail for stealing a wallet, I am pretty sure it would feel like "a long time."

This business of decades or life imprisonment for property crimes is draconian, we have just collectively lost perspective.

IMHO.

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